Discussion of shield gameplay balance

[roninpvp]

I'm confused. I thought that shielding a target meant that you took a % of the damage dealt to a target in their stead. So if I used a 25% shield on a mage who got hit for 100 dmg, I'd take 25 dmg and the mage would take 75 dmg. Or am i confusing my stanzas?

Shielding Power is a Mele skill that increases the max % of damage reduce you can take adding it on top of your armour. So say you wore heavy with 50% 200 slash 200 pierce and 200 smash protection the shielding power if you used it onyourself would stack onto that piece providing the damage reduction increase in the % and the absolute cap up to that %. If a mage friend was being attacked and you could not taunt all the agro off them and they were wearing light armour only; then the shielding would stack on top of their armour. The power gives bigger % boost as well as max damage reduce cap increases while using a buckler and even more when using a shield.

No, you're quite correct, although the numbers are a little bit off. Shielding is was a somewhat useless group skill (unavailable solo) that had far too long downtime pre-patch. Its now turned truly useless when they didn't adjust up the potential damage absorption to reflect post-patch 1 mob damage. roninpvp clearly has never used the skill; I'm not sure why he posted.

It is you usinuk who obviously does not know what they are talking about. I have used the power solo and in group extensively during FBT and Live. Did you even know that to use it Solo (or on yourself in a group) you have to target yourself then hit the stanza? Next time try to use the skill your discussing correctly before commenting someone else does not know what they are talking about or is incorrect. I am truely baffled about how you think you cannot use this power solo or insult me when all I tried doing was sharing information. I used the lvl 150 shielding power as an example as thats the most i've used in FBT (FBT was capped at 150 skills). Lastly, any % increase and max pierce/slash/smash protection added to you is a big help BECAUSE of the increased damage of mobs and their reduced hp (battles last not nearly as long now). This would be obvious if you knew how shielding power and armour worked. And before you state that the amounts are trivial take a look at the differences in % and caps you get using choice vs excellent vs supreme mats for armour.

I posted to add a skill that obvously adds a huge boost to shield users for a short period of time because I thought it would be a benefical topic to discuss in sharing knowledge among the users of the forums instead your ignorance has shown me why I should stay away from these boards.

[iphdrunk]

roninpvp clearly has never used the skill; I'm not sure why he posted.

lmao.. fortunately for me, he *has* used the skill, and extensively.. either on me (poor healer) or on himself. He knows what he is talking about.

regards,
Anissa

[usinuk]

Next time try to use the skill your discussing correctly before commenting someone else does not know what they are talking about or is incorrect.

Mea culpa. I had no idea that you could exploit this skill for something that it wasn't designed for - damage reduction. The 30 sps I've spent on it so far just for kicks now actually may have some use; I tested it against some mobs with my friendly F10 key and you are dead on. I've changed the original message to reflect your uberness. If this isn't an exploit, congratulations. My response finally goaded you into sharing information that may have just made half the universe start playing 1h weapons.

As a targeted skill on others, it still stinks when used the way it apparently was intended (protect your friendly mage in light armor). And I'm sorry if you were insulted; had you mentioned how to gain access to the exploit rather than just postulated how wonderful it was I certainly wouldn't have jumped on you. Having seen too many ranged weapon posts by people who've never used a ranged weapon I generally tend to be a little wary of people who've posted 4 times.

Oh, and before you growl about how it is correct to be used this way and isn't exploiting, think of this. There's nothing in the skill that mentions damage reduction - just damage transfer, and at levels far, far less than what you achieve when used this way. I've never run across another skill that requires self-targeting for full use. And shield 1 works just as well as shield 3 for this method. And it doesn't disable the power stanza timers the way it should - for other stanza skills with timers, the entire stanza line goes away and not just the skill in question. Guess what - the combination of all of the above is generally is the definition of an exploit of a broken skill.

Will post some data crunching of shield vs dagger when I have a chance.

[khayne]

Hmmmm well I know for a fact that didn't work prior to patch 1 when I still had that stanza. But I guess maybe it works now!

[josephm]

Well in the defense of anyone and everyone's ignorance. The help descriptions do suck. I had no idea you could use shield on self either. Nor did I think if I had managed it, that it would make a difference. Like Usinuk says, the desc claims absorbsion, not extra protection.

I'll try this out solo. Maybe it will make my 1h balance out with my 2h skill. I still think 15 sec/120 downtime is unbalanced, sure your shield arm gets tired, but we can swing a giant mace tirelessly can't we? I do agree with some downtime for the added protection you get anyways.

Usinuk. Using the skill on yourself does make sense. Think of it this way, there is a big piece of bark that blocks most of the hit towards you because it's there....and provides extra protection when you learn how to deflect blows with it properly.

[usinuk]

Usinuk. Using the skill on yourself does make sense. Think of it this way, there is a big piece of bark that blocks most of the hit towards you because it's there....and provides extra protection when you learn how to deflect blows with it properly.

I agree there should be a skill that enhances your shield's ability to maximize damage protection, just like there should be ranged skills that allow longer range and increased speed. A skill that is supposed to transfer damage from someone else just isn't it.

And one other thing...I do regret if the exchange between myself and roninpvp has decreased discussion on shields. Keep it going, it needs more input.

[roninpvp]

Mea culpa. I had no idea that you could exploit this skill for something that it wasn't designed for - damage reduction. The 30 sps I've spent on it so far just for kicks now actually may have some use; I tested it against some mobs with my friendly F10 key and you are dead on. I've changed the original message to reflect your uberness. If this isn't an exploit, congratulations. My response finally goaded you into sharing information that may have just made half the universe start playing 1h weapons.
.

Your ignorance is partly my fault. The descriptions have varied and have never been truly accurate. My posting the description without explaining everything was done since I assumed you had a clue how it worked. I was evidently proven wrong since your comments show you have never used the skill or have used it and never looked. Never has this skill been used to transfer damage. It has always as far back as I can rememberr been an added damage reduction power. As for it being the only skill that you need to target yourself it makes absolute sense. It is the only skill that acts on 1 target and can be used for anyone you chose in team including yourself. The aura are obviously all inclusive and the other power stanza such as berzerk is only for yourself and thus needs no targeting. And on your comment of people playing one handed it does make sense that one handed SHOULD have its disadvantages as well as ADVANTAGES against 2 Handed mele.

As a targeted skill on others, it still stinks when used the way it apparently was intended (protect your friendly mage in light armor). And I'm sorry if you were insulted; had you mentioned how to gain access to the exploit rather than just postulated how wonderful it was I certainly wouldn't have jumped on you.

It amuses me that you assume that is not the way the skill was intended. I do admit it is one of the few skills that you have to select a target and thus is unique. However, your assuming again or you believe yourself to know how everything in the game was designed...which I highly doubt from some of your comments. To be on the record I have had several conversations of this skill as well as shields in general through out beta and closed beta and never was I told by GMs or others that this was a bug and not working as intended.

Having seen too many ranged weapon posts by people who've never used a ranged weapon I generally tend to be a little wary of people who've posted 4 times....

Absolutely...it must take 100+ posts on the forums to become knowledgeable about the game...rather than actually spend time playing the game.. o_O

And it doesn't disable the power stanza timers the way it should - for other stanza skills with timers, the entire stanza line goes away and not just the skill in question. Guess what - the combination of all of the above is generally is the definition of an exploit of a broken skill..

I have to really laugh at your obvious ignorance on this.

1.) Taunt is a power stanza and indeed DOES NOT share the same timer with other power stanzas.
2.) Berzerk again is a power stanza and DOES NOT share the same timer with other power stanzas
3.) Speed is a power stanza and DOES NOT share the same timer with other power stanzas.
4.) Invulnerabilty is a power stanza and DOES NOT share the same timer with other power stanzas.

This concludes that power stanzas for mele do not share the same timer as a general rule and your ignorance again is very obvioiusly pointed out by yourself. The only power stanza that shares a timer are the heals if I remember correctly. Do you even play mele? Do you even have a clue? It seems obvious you dont. Before you call anything an exploit you should definitely try to get a better understanding.

[kisedd]

I've tried to follow this convoluted thread. Is the shield power a good one to get? Can I use it to effectivly help my friends in combat?

[rakavich]

I recently posted a Support ticket about shields and Armour protection and this is the answer I got as i understand it

Your Protection factor is not the max % you can adsorb you add all the Prot. factors together and then do some secret sums with your combat level the level and type of mob you are fighting and the QL level of items used and you get a chance your armour will protect you.

no more info on numbers was given ( or asked for )

then if I get hit in the arm say and my armour does protect me then it will stop the amount based on damage type that that location has. ( not sure if some mobs have factors that change the amount stopped)

Shields add thier Protection factor to the total ( so if you have a shield out you will suceed your protection chance slightly more often) BUT they only add thier damage stopping value to hits ABOVE the waist only so torso head and arms.

I have not tested this yet ( it was late when i finished talking to the Support guy) but in tests before i asked it seemed like there was little point going anything other than 2 handed as you kill the mob alot quicker thus avoiding the damage you take trying to slowly kill it using a one handed weapon...

[aldrikoy]

Shields add thier Protection factor to the total ( so if you have a shield out you will suceed your protection chance slightly more often) BUT they only add thier damage stopping value to hits ABOVE the waist only so torso head and arms.

This, at least on the surface, sounds like an arguement in favor of a shield user wearing heavier pants and boots. Am I getting this right? As a player having fun becoming a generalist, I am trying to maximize protection while minimizing penalty, and have been using light armor, then equiping a shield and a heavy helmet when I melee. This has appeared to be a good compromise in newbieland, but I plan to hit the mainland very soon and am wondering whether this is a viable stratagy, or just a delusion on my part. This may not be the proper thread for it, but general comments on integrating armor types, shields and shielding would be welcome here or elsewhere.