Ranged weapon and skills

[pr0ger]

Global picture :
you balance a game using this :
- every skill sould be able to be additional in a team play
- every skill could also be interesting for solo hunters
- balance between efficiency / drawback. More power means more chance to die in battle
- balance between price / effectiveness.

magicians and melee fighters fit easily in this "chart"
range weaps get trouble in the efficiency/drawback (at the bottom : low eff / no drawbk). price / effectiveness depends of player-to-player business...

Sure, we have to take care with the rp-background and storyline.

[korin77]

Right now as I see it the problem isn't that ranged weapons are unbalanced or broken, just bugged. The whole ammo issue just needs to be addressed so that higher ql ammo will do more dmg and ammo made with choice mats will not end up with 0 dmg. Once you fix that all the other problems will go away. Its true that all those stanzas are not used for ranged weapons, but you save skill points you can use in other places. In return you get a gun that seem to hardly miss a mob compared to melee weapons with a firing rate much faster than the swing rate of a two handed weapon. One improvement I do want to see though, is that ammo get loaded automatically from inventory and not equiped from your left hand. Its a one handed pistol after all, I should be able to hold a shield or a dagger or even another pistol.

[mikwana]

Actually, I've been happy with the guns so far (granted only up to about level 23 ranged), but it seems easily comparable to melee. I do agree with the loading, but it could probably be handled better like loading with a SAP crystal than with the left hand. That would allow for duel-pistols, you'd have your ammo count, and if you re-loaded mid-fight, you'd loose the 'extra' ammo that wasn't expended yet. It's important not to have it load automatically from the inventory though, so that you use the ammo type that you want to specifically (granted, most people probably only carry one type), which can vastly improve the weapons performance.

With the patch, now that you can stack ammo, that's awefull nice as well, since there won't be stacks and stacks of ammo in the inventory.

[ballinor]

Okay, so we need idea more along the lines of story and I must have quit SWG before the bounty hunter became super dude. I was there when pets were the thing (3 Rancor any one?).

So, let me think. Here is how I figure one way things could work. I'll poke at game play before ammo and stuff.

1. All base attacks are snap shots. In other words, all characters see, target, raise weapon, pop off round. Rinse repeat. Now, unless you are well trained, snap shooting is not easy. And mind you, the folks that are good train with a single weapon. I dont know if any of you folks are shooters out there, but as most can attest, there is a learning curve to get the feel for a weapon.

So, is this reflected in levels? I suppose it is. The higher level, the more accurate. I guess the biggest, what I consider a mistake, problem in games, is that shooting cannot be interrupted. Quite frankly, if you shoot at something and don't take it out, unless it is a pistol, you're going to eat that weapon. Even pistols can be taken away.

So, here is what I propose. Ranged attacks are interruptable. If a creature closes to melee range, then it's butt-stroke, pistol whip time. Also, this method of fighting should not be too effective. A mace is much more effective melee weapon than a pistol. Either this or switch to a melee weapon. The idea here is to move ranged attacks into the support position and not front lines. Shoot, maybe they could build bayonets.

Now, to have a decent chance to hit something at range, I propose the Set/Brace credit stanza again. I dont know if there are range modifiers, but if there are, then that is what this stanza should negate. In so doing, your defense is effective zippo. Note that this does not improve you chances to hit, just offsets the range mod.

As for the weapon different action types, I dont know how to fit them in the game. We have auto-launchers so I suppose we could make auto other weapons. If so, count the number of rounds based of the accuracy rolled with a geometric increase in difficulty per round after the first.

If possible, wind, rain, and light should affect accuracy, unlike melee attacks (although light still should). If so, you could make upgrades for wind-gauge and such (bullet drop?).

I can't think of a whole lot of stanzas really. Maybe reload time, speed loading, heavy caliber (recovery time between shots?), recoil, any Stamina credit (compensation for recoil and/or weight), and called shots (as mentioned before by someone).

As for munition types, well, Matis could darn near do any thing. Explosive seed pods, poison seed pods, rapid growth bullets (Tyranids any one), entangle (though balance problem), pain rounds, and gas. About the only thing they might have a hard time with is an AP round. Cellulose is't the best penetrating material, but hey, in this game, who knows what plants can do.

Fyros, well, gee, fire maybe. Now these guys would have fire Sap attacks (your napalm), dense fire burst (plasma), and your general rounds. Maybe gas too from thermal vent rounds (what ever). Oh, and let's not forget ignition! It's fun to burn gingos down. They could even do a HEAT round really. I mean, it's just an explosive turning a chunk of metal into a plasma shot in one direction.

Zorai, well, we have our lightening and Mag fields. I've already seen their lightening pistols. About every when they have could toss lightening bolts at their enemies. Not sure what else here. Maybe they could get a holster to cover the plumber's butt.

Trykers...don't know much about the little, wide-eyed freaks. They could do AP though. Harpoon guns and the like. Explosive steam rounds. Acid splash rounds, and of course gas or poison.

Okay, out of ideas again.

[xixan]

Are the dev's even going to attempt to reply to this issue?

[pr0ger]

Okay, so we need idea more along the lines of story

You got it, dude, and your ideas are quite fine (the ammo parts mainly)

1. All base attacks are snap shots. [...,] unless you are well trained, snap shooting is not easy [...] there is a learning curve [...] So, is this reflected in levels?

Not really :/ your opponent can't dodge or parry at all. When you're getting experienced, it's like melee : you're missing less, and it doesn't need any stanzas at all. "aiming" ones change nothing.

So, here is what I propose. Ranged attacks are interruptable. If a creature closes to melee range, then it's butt-stroke, pistol whip time

stroke is a good idea, indeed. Be careful of power balance now : it's the same trouble as magician at lower level : if they can't kill the mob before it reach them, they're dead. ...

(stroke mode) A mace is much more effective melee weapon than a pistol. Either this or switch to a melee weapon. The idea here is to move ranged attacks into the support position and not front lines. Shoot, maybe they could build bayonets.

Pistols yes, but did you seen the size of a rifle or an autoloauncher ? those toys are HUGE, more than a mace, so stroke mode may be really painful (smash damage)

As for the weapon different action types, I dont know how to fit them in the game. We have auto-launchers so I suppose we could make auto other weapons. If so, count the number of rounds based of the accuracy rolled with a geometric increase in difficulty per round after the first.

I use sometime autolauncher and it fire only 1 rocket at time, like semi-automatice pistol or rifle. The reload time is very long (rate 6). Seems that the "auto" mechanism is not yet implemented.
I dunno if there is differences with a launcher. The launcher may be more painful and even slower. I'll learn it soon anyway


We need devs feedback, so I bump this thread up

[stygeon]

Unfortunately for some of the post ... this is not SWG and not an SWG clone.

Give the devs time to fix the problems ... inact their vision of the game and of things to come and try that.

As I have stated before ... It is a bit early in the life of the game to run off and ask for change when the devs havent even given us their honest vision.