Request for more clarity

[thurgond]

Cerest wrote:

Perhaps a Little Clarity to the Faction PvP and Fame
Here is some info regarding the impact of PvP faction on the fame :

- At the beginning (when the player chooses a faction), the fame of the faction the player hasn't chosen falls to:
* -1 for the non-chosen faction if the fame of the chosen faction is positive
* One less than the fame you chose if the fame for that faction is negative

- Then, during the PvP fight, each time an adversary is killed, the fame of the chosen faction increases of the same amount the fame of the faction the player hasn't chosen decreases.

You can see why it's important to choose neutral right now if you enter the Fleeting Gardens, until it's turned off. Your fame will immediately be affected and can not be restored.

Thanks for the additional information, but this raises more questions than it answers.

Is the fame change for chosing sites permanent? If not, what is the purpose? The only reason for a temporary change that I see is for spawn points within the PvP zone, and possibly on agro from NPC guards.

Permanent change for killing other players opens the way for big exploits and belittles the efforts of those who gained their fame the old fashioned way by working missions.

What does it take to get credit for a "kill"? Does the opponent just have to go unconsious or do you get credit only on a respawn. If you don't have to respawn, two pairs of opposite alignments could max their fame in minutes by knocking each other out and healing.

Who gets credit for a "kill", every member of the team or just the person dealing the killing blow? If fame credit goes with the killing blow, healing types will be at a disadvantage. If fame goes to the team, does everyone get the same amount as a solo kill or is it divided? Is every player equal or do you get more fame for killing someone with multiple skills at 250 than for killing someone new to the mainland?

How much fame is awarded per "kill", a tiny fraction of one point, one point per "kill", something in between?

If you choose neutral does this just affect fame or does it offer immunity to PvP?

Inquiring minds want to know (and can't test because they have to start holiday shopping).

-- Miss Narr

[cerest]

Is the fame change for chosing sites permanent? If not, what is the purpose? The only reason for a temporary change that I see is for spawn points within the PvP zone, and possibly on agro from NPC guards.

Yes this is permanent.

Permanent change for killing other players opens the way for big exploits and belittles the efforts of those who gained their fame the old fashioned way by working missions.

You can't change your fame the other way around very easily. If you decide to change which faction you're fighting for on the next time you enter the area then you have just lowered your fame that you gained from picking the side that you are now against. Please keep in mind these are EVENT FACTION PvP AREAS. The one that is now active is a mistake and should not be active. These areas aren't going to pop up all that often enough to even give someone a chance to exploit, even if they could.

What does it take to get credit for a "kill"? Does the opponent just have to go unconsious or do you get credit only on a respawn.

I believe knocking them unconscience is considered a kill.

How much fame is awarded per "kill", a tiny fraction of one point, one point per "kill", something in between?

I'm not sure.

If you choose neutral does this just affect fame or does it offer immunity to PvP?

Neutral will not affect fame but you cannot attack, because technically you're neutral and don't want to fight. However, if you do get hit by someone (and you can be hit because you are in a open PvP area) then you can defend yourself. However you can't rez anyone either, because you're neutral and shouldn't be helping either factions.

[josephm]

Cerest, Does this mean that as long as you spend enough time in the zone...loosing more than winning, you can still achieve high fame?

Shouldn't it work more like:
Enter with fame 50:
Base Fame set (invisibly) to 50.
Each kill is +1 to fame
Each death is -1 to fame

When you leave, your fame is still 50 if you died more than you won. Doesn't really make sense to get rewards from just being there over time and gleaning off other people's skills.

[bodywand]

Dieing for a cause does not seem like something that should drop fame. If I fight and die for someone I would be very displeased to lose fame with them. The way things are set up now sounds tasty to me.. now I need to find some to eat.

-Fist

[neofuzz]

This also means that some people's characters have been rendered useless in regards to fame and any fame-related rites/skills/events. I don't really think I want to create another character and run endless missions again... chances are I'd fall victim to another bug in the future that would render that character unplayable also.

[josephm]

Ok so loose .7 Fame then. Point being that people who loose more often than not are likely to have less fame....Cubs Vs. Yankees anyone?

And Fuzz is right too. It takes 3 missions, that are not nearly as fun as pictched battle, to go up one fame point. These missions (if not crafting) can take up to 20 minutes to accomplish. Especially the harvesting one.

[bodywand]

This also means that some people's characters have been rendered useless in regards to fame and any fame-related rites/skills/events.

Hrmmm.. did I miss something? How are they rendered useless? Is there a bug or something I haven't heard about? :Þ

[thurgond]

Yes this is permanent.

You can't change your fame the other way around very easily. If you decide to change which faction you're fighting for on the next time you enter the area then you have just lowered your fame that you gained from picking the side that you are now against. Please keep in mind these are EVENT FACTION PvP AREAS. The one that is now active is a mistake and should not be active. These areas aren't going to pop up all that often enough to even give someone a chance to exploit, even if they could.

I believe knocking them unconscience is considered a kill.

Thanks for your reply Cerest.

In the interest of eliminating a possible exploit, let me share how I see how this being exploited easily and quickly once an event happens.

Player A has maxed Kami fame from months of feeding Kitin morsels to the local Kami and a guildie Player B who is new to the mainland with minimal Kami fame. Players X and Z are in a similar situation on the Karavan side. Through normal channels (this isn't Dark Age of Atys so nominal enemies can talk via tells and chat) the A/B team arranges with the X/Z team to meet in a quiet corner of the PvP zone. A & B wack/nuke Z to unconscioness. X quickly heals Z and this pair beat up on B. A heals B and the cycle repeats.

This cycle can be kept up for a long time as long as A and X refrain from attacking each other. Would not take long B and Z have maxed out fame for their respective sides.

Even in the normal ebb and flow of a PvP battle people will be knocked out and brought back to life multiple times before one side has all their opponents down. My big heal is about equal to my base hits (both around 850 at 65 melee and 75 healing) and I can bring a high level tank back up and in the fight in a few seconds. In other games take much more mana/power/sap to resurrect someone. It's not that I don't like the I'm down/I'm up aspect of SoR, but it does mean that the PvP, GvG, RvR dynamic is much different in SoR.

The bottom line is that event PvP will move fame faster and easier than missions, perhaps easier than the developers intended.

--- Miss Narr
I'm a fool not an idiot.

[josephm]

yeah I forgot to mention that. good catch!

If fame were given in accordance to respawns much of this problem would be eliminated. The PvP respawn time would have to be limited to 30 seconds or so. Otherwise, the group would have to sit and guard corpses...which is dumb.

[navra]

"You can see why it's important to choose neutral right now if you enter the Fleeting Gardens, until it's turned off. Your fame will immediately be affected and can not be restored."

It is a little late to be telling those who arrived in Fleeting Gardens immediately after the patch.

Yet another example of the incompetence and failure to properly communicate by Nevrax.