Neutrality

[gralen]

Before the rise of the Kami Champions, there was some talk about neutrality but it has intensified since that event. That being the case, I wanted to write a bit about neutrality.

Firstly, I'm not talking about homins with high or low / positive or negative fame. I'm talking about those who feel that such things are beneath them or that feel the need to be loved by everyone so they can safely side step chosing a side in any given conflict.

One common theme among neutrals seems to be that of "if I don't take a stance against anyone, then no one can take a stance against me." The reactions to the Trykers who did not actively join the Karavan forces and yet remained in Aeden Aqueous prove otherwise. The true "traitors" to the Karavan cause were those Tryker and Matis (were there any Matis fighting for the Kami?) who fought along side the Zoraï and Fyros but these "turn coats" have, in fact, been praised for their efforts. Those who elected to stay on the sidelines have been derided for their decision, just the opposite reaction someone who is neutral would expect or want.

I haven't written this to condemn those who chose neutrality but rather to point out that making no decision can be the most deadly decision of all.

Summary
The motivation of a neutral homin or group will always be suspect and neutrality will not only make one the enemy of none, it will also make one the friend of none.

[kisedd]

Before the rise of the Kami Champions, there was some talk about neutrality but it has intensified since that event. That being the case, I wanted to write a bit about neutrality.


One common theme among neutrals seems to be that of "if I don't take a stance against anyone, then no one can take a stance against me." The reactions to the Trykers who did not actively join the Karavan forces and yet remained in Aeden Aqueous prove otherwise. The true "traitors" to the Karavan cause were those Tryker and Matis (were there any Matis fighting for the Kami?) who fought along side the Zoraï and Fyros but these "turn coats" have, in fact, been praised for their efforts. Those who elected to stay on the sidelines have been derided for their decision, just the opposite reaction someone who is neutral would expect or want.

I think both sides are traitors. Those that helped the Zorai are traitors to the Karavan and their own races perhaps. Those that did nothing on purpose, certainly are traitors too.

I can at least respect someone for choosing a side, I can't respect anyone that has no beliefs or convictions.

[trosky]

I agree neutrality in a RP context is a tad "opportunist" but for those who dont RP, being neutral is a way to participate in more event and to have more fun. I think we should see them as free mercenary.

[lyrah68]

I missed the event in question, and am not totally sure which side I would have chosen, were I to have faced it.

There are some that are not so much "neutral" as they are slow to act. They want to see what the TRUE motivation of each side is in a conflict.

For instance, the Karavan surely can travel OFF land. In Matisian newbie land, there has been a debate lately. If the Karavan are TRULY our friends, and truly wish to help Hominkind, then why do they hold their technology in secret instead of FREELY sharing it. Another question is...has ANYONE seen what is under all that clothing and the masks? Anyone else notice that some of that costume they wear seems a bit like a space suit, including a breathing apperatus, like they don't breath the same air as us?

And the Kami are not so innocent either. One friend I chat with regularly asked me, "If the Kami are the defenders of Ayts...why isn't the goo in check? If they were as powerful as we believe them to be, they should be able to make ALL the goo disappear." He was quiet for a while, trying to help me run get another spawn spot, then he mused, "I think that both sides are using us for their OWN benefit. I feel like a lab rat."

That last comment struck a nerve, in almost any noobie region I have played in for any length of time, the SAME comment was made. Phrases like "lab rats", a huge experiment and WE are the subjects, what do Homins get out of all of this? and a few others that question the motives of either Kami or Karavan or both have come up.

I am far from alone on this. We HAVE to have enough of a "side" to actually have the spawn spots, there is a point in a fame switch where you pretty much can't even respawn. So changing sides is pretty much out of the question.

I understand from a game mechanics point of view why all the NPC's aren't spewing more of the story about what their motives are...the story isn't fully finished. BUT...in a role play point of view...it sure does seem like they are staying quiet for a GOOD reason...to me at least.

Plus as a mother of two kids, I know fully that in ANY conflict...there are at least TWO sides to the story, and no one is ever as innocent or all mighty or righteous as they seem. More than one story tells us that, the bigger they are the harder they fall.

I stand...fame wise...on the Kami side, but I am not a zealot. I have seen their power, and like many things from our youth, when you get older and can see eye to eye with a former leader...they look alot more fragile and frail and alot more corrupt than you remember them.

I am not wishy washy, I am not a collaborator, but I do want to see that whatever side I take, I am not putting CHAINS on my wrists. Do we honestly think that either side is going to give us anything for FREE? Their is a debt that we incurr by taking anything either of them gives, and a cost to fighting on either side.

My question is simple...can we afford to pay the debt, when the time comes to cash in the chips?

I would be MUCH more comfortable taking an irrvokable step, that could affect where I could go, what spawn spots I could have, and deeply affect my travel ablities if there was more evidence in game, more of the truth that I could research.

I know about faction/fame, and events, they DO change servers and can affect the playablity of a character. I just want a bit more to base a decision on.

Well I guess I just lost my label of hot headed red head, but that is ok, I worked hard to think first...then act with determination and conviction.

I would like to get the Karavan and Kami together and try to get them to talk it out. I find that conflict should be a last resort (other than self defense of course), and if you can negotiate, more people get more of what they want than if people pull out guns and start shooting.

I honestly have NO idea what the Kami want, or what the Karavan want. I would like to know that before I start making up my mind on which side I think or feel is right.

Convictions are great, we all have them. But reacting is not wise, thinking, listening, learning and THEN acting...that is better.

[madnak]

I agree. I haven't seen a compelling reason to join either side. It seems like they have this petty conflict going, but it doesn't really affect the homins at all. We're just pawns working for their agendas (and we don't even know what their agendas are).

Not only that, but they want us to fight among ourselves, instead of fighting the kitin that are a real threat to hominkind.

With more information it might be easier.

[zzeii]

The big question is, is where people stand, in which conflict.

Personally, I take no side in any zorai/matis/tryker/fyros conflict, nor in any kami/karavan conflict. I work towards the betterment of Atys, from any threat. And I will join sides with any who seek to encounter these threats, whether it be kitin or goo related.

To refuse to fight to destroy a souce of threat that will affect all of Atys, to me, is a sign of cowardice and merit of being deemed a traitor to all of the people of Atys. Calling upon the reason of 'not aiding the Karavan(or Kami)' is just a despicable excuse for cowardice.

To quote a song I'm fond of... 'Life isn't about what you've done, it's about what you're doing'. All RP'ing aside, if your lands are under invasion/attack and you refuse to defend it/offer any aid due to the fact you don't like the 'faction' directing, then you deserve to receive any and all scorn from your fellow Atysians. RL issues is one thing, refusing to do anything is another.

When it comes to inter-civilization/belief disputes, I am neutral. When it comes to defending our lands, you can most assuredly say, I am not.

[fiach]

Chinese Proverb #10:
Man who sit on fence get balls kicked from both sides

[yy48n19]

I think both sides are traitors. Those that helped the Zorai are traitors to the Karavan and their own races perhaps. Those that did nothing on purpose, certainly are traitors too.

I can at least respect someone for choosing a side, I can't respect anyone that has no beliefs or convictions.

What people don't seem to be getting is that choosing not to aid the Karavan is a choice that is motivated by strong convictions that they are not to be trusted.

Personally, I take no side in any zorai/matis/tryker/fyros conflict, nor in any kami/karavan conflict. I work towards the betterment of Atys, from any threat. And I will join sides with any who seek to encounter these threats, whether it be kitin or goo related.

Some of us feel that the Karavan are a threat.

To refuse to fight to destroy a souce of threat that will affect all of Atys, to me, is a sign of cowardice and merit of being deemed a traitor to all of the people of Atys. Calling upon the reason of 'not aiding the Karavan(or Kami)' is just a despicable excuse for cowardice.

No, refusing to come to the military call of the Karavan is not cowardice or the mark of a "traitor to all of the people of Atys." If you read gralen's narrative of the battle in Witherings, you may understand our perspective better. An excerpt follows:

"We prepared to march to the Chasm of Umbra to begin our battle anew but found that a Kami Seeker had appeared and was not alone but stood side by side with a Wise Gibbaï! The Seeker warned us to keep a defense force behind and to send only the strongest into the Roots. The Seeker then told us to speak with the Wise Gibbaï and to our amazement, it could speak our language! It told us that the Karavan had indeed infected the Gibbaï and the Cutes and that they were being helped by Homins! It also told us that the Gibbaï and Cute tribes had called upon the Kami, Nature Spirits it called them, to protect the Gibbaïs and Cutes from further infection and Karavan abuse. It further told us that Gibbaï and Cute hunters had been sent to the Roots and that these hunters would not harm us."

The link to the whole narrative: http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthre...70512#post70512

In that light, it seems that the true traitors to Atys may be those who support the Karavan, and that things may not be as simple--i.e. Homin vs. kitin and goo--as some wish to believe.

[zzeii]

Then why would the Karavan call people to aid to fight this same problem?

Maybe the conversation went like this:

Karavan Agent A:Hey we infected all the gibbai and cutes, now what?

Karavan Agent B:Why not send our homin friends to go fight them and try and prevent our plan!

Yea...right...

And lets see, the gibbai and kami are friends... I could imagine this happening for them:

Kami fuzzball:Hey when those 'followers' of ours get here, make up some schtik about the karavan infecting you, yea yea...heheh

Gibbai wiseguy:Yea! And I'll tell them that the karavan are amassing an army too of their followers! That'll get them paranoid!

Hrmm...

Possibly, the kami and karavan are trying to use the people of atys to their own ends. Possibly the kami and karavan have their own sects inside themselves. Maybe they both are a possible threat to Atys. There are many unanswered questions to this. Personally I'd take what either side has to say with a grain of salt.

But if your homeland comes under attack, and your fellow people are doing their best to defend it, while you idly sit by and do nothing to help stop it, then yes, I will call you a coward, and a traitor to your kin.

[yy48n19]

But if your homeland comes under attack, and your fellow people are doing their best to defend it, while you idly sit by and do nothing to help stop it, then yes, I will call you a coward, and a traitor to your kin.

Whatever, Zzei. You can call me all the names you want. You call me coward; I call it roleplay and sticking to a role that I chose to play.

One point, though: cowards tend to not stick up for causes that they believe in, so your insult doesn't stick very well.

As for Mellodi's motvations during the raid and what she actually did and did not do, please read or re-read my post here for some clarification. Sitting idly by is not quite accurate.