Launchers and autolaunchers... calling out the inexperienced trolls

[tetra]

12 mat Autolauncher clip of 6 shots: (4 ammo jacket, 4 bullet, 4 explosive)
Weight: 6.56 (39.36) KG
Bulk: 5.0 (30)

4 mat rifle clip of 24 shots (2 ammo jacket, 1 bullet, 1 explosive)
Weight: 0.27 (6.48) KG
Bulk: 0.1 (2.4)

The above are the number of shots, number of mats needed, and burden on the ammo types I can make. Launchers have slightly higher weight/burden compared to autolaunchers and slightly higher damage, but they are equally useless... since I cannot make launcher ammo, I will leave them out of my post and let someone else who can craft them comment on them.

In nearly every single thread since beta where someone comments about how autolaunchers or launchers, we get some inexperienced troll who seems to have never even used one of them crying about how amazingly uber and overpowered they would be if the mat use and burden per shot were kicked in line with the barely viable money pit of rifle ammo.

With my rifle at my level in 2handed ranged combat (75), using the proper choice mats, I can hit for around 150-160 a shot. Using autolaunchers, I can hit for about 400-420 per shot, with half the rate of fire. A level 70 nuke has a base damage of 240, and is able to hit for more damage (or at least equal) as well as hit far far faster than an autolauncher once a proper amp is used with it. Ranged combat currently plays the same sort of assinine resist game that magery plays with higher level mobs, it just comes in the form of
X dodged your attack
you hit but do no damage
it works exactly like resists in magic, in that you need to be within a certain level of your target to hit reliably... accuracy makes no difference at all in these dodges that anyone can tell.

Ranged combat is the only combat tree that can easily burn through hundreds of mats in a day... in fact I went through close to 80 clips yesterday during the zorai>fyros trip. I started the day with about 30 clips made and enough mats to make another 40 or so between me and my packers. By the end of the evening I had to get some bullet mats from someone I was with cause I litterally was down to my last 5 clips and didn't have the mob drops needed to make any more ammo by the time we made it to pyr and were headed off to undersprings.

Autolaunchers have an utterly useless spray AOE that is only good for picking up adds... anyone who wants to claim otherwise, is welcome to go buy the larger area covering spray AOE bricks to put on a nuke and try to claim that they are actually useful... expect to be promptly laughed at.

So we have 12 times as many mats needed per shot (3x as many per clip and each clip making 1/4 the shots) and a burden/weight ratio that is so far out of wack that it actually looks like the decimal is in the wrong place... for a mere 20-30% higher DPS (Damage Per Second) once the lower rate of fire is taken into account. A DPS still far below that of a caster. And dropping like a stone once the you hit but do no damage dance is taken into account.... yet we have folks coming out to chant about things like

I must absolutely disagree with you - if rocket/grenade launchers are changed as you suggest, there would be no reason at all for rifles/bowrifles to exist! Rocket launcher ammo should weigh so much that you can only carry a very limited quantity [even 30 seems absurdly high - maybe with no armor] and should take more mats also considering the much greater damage done.

The suggestion was to make the burden and mat use per shot similar to that of the barely usable rifle ammo...

This item is NOT meant for normal game play, it would be HIGHLY unballancing for it to weigh the same as other MUCH less powerful ammo. As I understand this item and its ammo, it is meant for invasions, where you need to wipe out HUGE numbers of mobs, SO you would have one player, near the stables (have the ammo ON the packer IN the stables, you can still reach into the packer with it SAFELY in the stables and have all IT can carry on it), you load up and BLAM(think thermo nuclear explosion), then when needed reach into packer and yank more ammo out, reload, and BLAM away again.

If I understand their function properly they are AOE blasts, this would mean HUGE devastation to the enemy...QUITE useful when faced by HUGE numbers, but CLEARLY not intended for your "average hunting trip". This is why they weight slightly LESS than your average VW bug.

Again same suggestion, different inexperienced shrieking troll.

So how about one of these folks that feel autolaunchers and launchers are so amazingly uber come and defend their claims for once, rather than fleeing from the thread or ignoring the topic completely like seems to be the fashion when shown how hopelessly out of touch they are with what they are ranting about.

[eschiava]

And speaking of shrieking trolls...

Why don't we all just acknowledge you as the undisputed authority on the subject of autolaunchers. Would that satisfy you?

[tetra]

And speaking of shrieking trolls...

Why don't we all just acknowledge you as the undisputed authority on the subject of autolaunchers. Would that satisfy you?

Please find some other thread to threadcrap and troll in, or particpiate in the topic of the thread by actually saying something of value one way or the other.

[neiana]

The autolaunchers and rocket or whatever, those are not and never were intended to be a viable solo/group or COMMONLY USED weapon: EVER. The design was specifically to use these as low-end "artillery" weapons in raids where the Kitin are attacking.

I will not argue any reasoning behind why it ISN'T viable for solo/group and how it CAN be - as it was NOT meant to be.

- N

[vanderpm]

The autolaunchers and rocket or whatever, those are not and never were intended to be a viable solo/group or COMMONLY USED weapon: EVER. The design was specifically to use these as low-end "artillery" weapons in raids where the Kitin are attacking.

I will not argue any reasoning behind why it ISN'T viable for solo/group and how it CAN be - as it was NOT meant to be.

- N

Yes but currently the way combat is set up, to be effective with any ranged combat you must have many levels in it. Ranged combat is still included in this. Therefore to have an effective artilleryman, they must be practiced. Where do you expect for a ranged combatant to get experience? Practice, the grind (either solo or teamed), which is damn near impossible right now.

[tetra]

The autolaunchers and rocket or whatever, those are not and never were intended to be a viable solo/group or COMMONLY USED weapon: EVER. The design was specifically to use these as low-end "artillery" weapons in raids where the Kitin are attacking.

I will not argue any reasoning behind why it ISN'T viable for solo/group and how it CAN be - as it was NOT meant to be.

- N

1. melee does more damage per second.
2. magic does more damage per second.
3. A couple clips of Launcher/Autolauncher ammo takes roughly as many mats as an entire suit of heavy armor.
4. Rifles to crap for damage (comperable to a single dagger user with enhanced damage who is still hitting ~75% faster than the rifle fighter).
5. Autolaunchers only do slightly higher DPS than rifles (20-30%) and have an utterly useless spray AOE that's only good for sometimes getting an add... in fact after going through a pissload of mats on about 20 kills of kipee at kipee hill in zorai with my autolauncher, kiting them clear across the map without care on what mobs I ran through... I was able to pickup an add about 4 times. Sad considering I actually started trying to run through clusters of mobs.
6. Launchers do only slightly higher damage than autolaunchers and compensate for it with even higher mat cost per shot and higher burden... they are only good for picking up massive aggro.
7. You need to be a similar level to the mob like with magic in order to not get xyz dodged your attack;you hit but do no damage on 99% of your attacks no matter what level accuracy brick you use.

Please justify your assinine statement of "he design was specifically to use these as low-end "artillery" weapons in raids where the Kitin are attacking."

[p46985]

Tetra I see your point, ranged combat is quite useless at the moment. I'm using it just to get extra stanzas in fight, and it is only possible because my melee fight is way much higher than ranged, therefore i'm able to survive with my bow rifle when hunting lower level mobs that give me ranged combat exp. It shouldn't be this way, for the amount of time that you invest into making ammo you should get decent damage. Furthermore, efficient ranged combat would create a thriving market for ammo, a lot of crafters would start making money by crafting ammo as the demand would be very high and it would be very hard to make all the ammo you need by yourself.

[tetra]

Tera I see your point, ranged combat is quite useless at the moment. I'm using it just to get extra stanzas in fight, and it is only possible because my melee fight is way much higher than ranged, therefore i'm able to survive with my bow rifle when hunting lower level mobs that give me ranged combat exp. It shouldn't be this way, for the amount of time that you invest into making ammo you should get decent damage. Furthermore, efficient ranged combat would create a thriving market for ammo, a lot of crafters would start making money by crafting ammo as the demand would be very high and it would be very hard to make all the ammo you need by yourself.

Ammo crafting is bad in it's current state, you can only trade 8 items in the trade window and only have 100 items for sale at once... I went through like 80+ clips yesterday alone =\. Basically if you don't make your own ammo, you can't do ranged weapons unless it's an occasional toy cause someone gave you some ammo.

[cerest]

Tetra please stop the name-calling. You may continue this thread only if it stops attacking other players. Please keep it clean.

[cryss]

Interesting, Cerest.
Why is ist always the "Range-Lovers" fraction to be stopped talking?

Nevertheless, enough people on the german server are angry about rangefight, but we have complained enough. We will wait. How long will depend on the amount of ignorance Nevrax will show in the future (as if there was not already enough exclusion of the players) regarding the fact that all rangeplayers are complaining about unbalanced gameplay.