Fame mission bug thingie now forwarded to Nervax

[xmancer]

GMs have told me its now been kicked up to corporate for examination. They dont have the tools to fix fame in any way, that would have to be done by HQ folk.

CLARIFICATION: 'kicked up to corporate' should be replaced by escalated from GMs to devs (is that more accurate fadin? - sorry for poor nomenclture, entirely my fault here if i gave wrong impression)

for any that have looked at the threads (t=6035 and t=6037) i'd love to get your feedpack on what you think a good fix of this would be.

A little on the pros and cons of the above options:

Delete: *huge* burdens on GMs to verify that (a) there is a bug that opens that tribe erroneously (b) that the person did one of those missions (c) that doing so actually opened the tribe for that person. and repeat for each person requesting this...

Personal: anyone wanting a rollback individually asks for it. things trickle in and trickle out

Opt-In: like personal, except they take in all names, batch it up, and do it once. they'd need to pick a timeframe to opt-in

Full Rollback: hurts some (probably more than it saves) but less than 1 week of rollback shouldnt mean loosing hundreds of hours invested. It also takes away the worry of exploitable missions (imagine finding a mission bugged to give both +kami and +karavan fame - and what that could do if truly exploited) All lesser rollbacks would allow any such exploits to stand.

Just Live with it: obviously not what i'd like to see, but i'd rather get a definite 'No' then have this issue stay open for another month or so before they decide that a rollback-fix is called for, and instead of loosing hours or tens of hours, people end up loosing hundreds of hours. Note that voting for this means if you hit a bug that makes you loose all your spawn points, or all your TP tickets, you should likewise be willing to deal with it.

[fadin]

Hello,

Just to help clear up this information.

There isn't a case of being sent to "corporate" to fix or review anything. If there are any issues reported by the players, we submit reports. These are read by the production team. This would include anything from a bad translation to what may appear to be a bigger problem.

I don't want anyone to assume, based on this post, that this has gone to a place of immediate response or action. *All* reports are read by the production team.

The GM explained the information was reported.

Regards,

[raynes]

I don't really like any of your answers. I really really don't want a rollback. I've done too many tasks that I really shouldn't have to do over. This doesn't take into account the fame bugs that were there before the patch either. As much as I hate to say this, I think just fixing the bugs and let players work on fixing their fame on thier own. Or come up with some tasks to counter the effects of this bug.

[vguerin]

I dont know xmancer, I have read all your threads and have seen similar things with fame as you but disagree these are bugs. I don't want the tail wagging the dog once again with your campaign...

I have found scouts/tribes that give NO positive fame to anyone but the tribe in that specific area, I lose fame with both factions as well as three civilizations. This seems more like politics of the game and is part of the knowledge we gather to prevent the wrong fame in areas we cherish. We have had many guildmates getting fame started with tribes that have not been in our best interest. This is part of the trial and error you go thru to find out what works best for you and/or your guild.

Shame on anyone asking for a rollback on known non-aligned tribes, you wont unroll the ones that work in your best interest and both were discovered the same way. We are ALWAYS going to have folks that either make errors in selecting missions or are just so reckless they dont care.

Nobody is going to have perfect politics with every tribe since each tribe has it's own allegiances, there is not a cookie cutter fame for all tribes. We dont have a history/glossary of why certain tribes have their alliances as they do, their names/race imply certain things but this isn't set in stone anywhere.

Continue your campaign to make the Dev's work to change something that may not be broke and is working exactly as it should if you must. I do not believe this is a valid arguement for bad decisions in which tribes to attempt alignment with. Our lack of knowledge on the system and the tribes alignments does not make for a bug which needs any attention. It would be a "spoiler" if there was such a list with every tribes alignment, and even then we'd have to be very selective on which tribes we align with less the same thing occur. Not every Zorai tribe will be Zorai aligned etc etc... When we know or discover more and develop our knowledge we should see the patterns more clearly.

A look at whether there "may" be something not acting as intended is always warranted when someone asks and provides decent feedback showing their reasoning. It doesn't mean we campaign to have a rollback to fix our selection errors.

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[zumwalt]

Just leave it alone, from what I can tell, its actually working appropriately for the most part, stay away from the broken npc's and just report which ones are borken.

The game is not designed for you to be ally with all races, read the history of ryzom and the races.

A rollback = extremely bad because they can't just do fame roll-back, they have to do character roll-back.

Who here wants to roll-back there character to pre-patch 1, NOT ME.

[vguerin]

Just as an example for you xmancer, I have made a post on my forums (because they don't allow us to add screenshots here anymore) showing there are some NPC related issues. I just dont believe selecting a bad tribe should require a change of anything on clients. Fix the NPC's that need be and the rest we will overcome.

Here is a big example of mislabeled NPC :

http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name ... =1283#1283

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[xmancer]

I have found scouts/tribes that give NO positive fame to anyone but the tribe in that specific area, I lose fame with both factions as well as three civilizations. This seems more like politics of the game and is part of the knowledge we gather to prevent the wrong fame in areas we cherish. We have had many guildmates getting fame started with tribes that have not been in our best interest. This is part of the trial and error you go thru to find out what works best for you and/or your guild.

Shame on anyone asking for a rollback on known non-aligned tribes, you wont unroll the ones that work in your best interest and both were discovered the same way. We are ALWAYS going to have folks that either make errors in selecting missions or are just so reckless they dont care.

DT, realize the source if not that we did a mission for a tribe and decided we didnt like the fame with them. its doing mission for, say a Zoraii (civilized) NPC like a corporal and having that erroneously give you fame with an anti-zoraii tribe.

Fetch a cup of coffee for Gandhi, and get credit for helping Stalin (who you've never talked to) as a result. its not a hidden fame thing, it is a flat out error.

Continue your campaign to make the Dev's work to change something that may not be broke and is working exactly as it should if you must. I do not believe this is a valid arguement for bad decisions in which tribes to attempt alignment with.

again, decisions were made very carefully, the fame should not have adjusted as it did, has been called a bug by GMs, and if fact was a result of mission edits that occured with patch 1.

The complex fame system is a VERY GOOD THING and i wholly approve of it, and dont want the system changed. Its missions that had fame mis-set in/after patch 1, and the resulting problems that i wish to see addressed.

A look at whether there "may" be something not acting as intended is always warranted when someone asks and provides decent feedback showing their reasoning. It doesn't mean we campaign to have a rollback to fix our selection errors.

my ENTIRE reason for this thread is that it was looked at, clearly aknowledged that that missions were 'not working as intended', (insofar as they gave incorrect fame) but that there was no 'fix' for the results of doing the bugged mission. It is not that the NPC was mislabled (and after looking at your screenshots you have indeed found something similar) but that when they did the mission changes in patch 1 things got... messed up in places. A seargent in a Zoraii town in an office that i have to teleport into is not... likely... to be a mislabled tribesman.... spy.

if there was a bug that, when buying a TP ticket from a certain altar it DELETED all other TP tickets you had, would you not want (a) that to be fixed and (b) the tickets you lost to come back?

I hope this makes what i am trying to ask for clearer, because from your post it looked as ifyou thought i was asking for something like (c) change the TP system entirely...

[fadin]

Hello,

Another clarification.

As far as I know, as of right now this has not been called a bug by GMs. It has only been said it would be reported. If it was called a bug by anyone prior to acknowledging it was a bug by the correct people, it was done in error. If it is not intended or is a bug, it will be handled appropriately.

Regards,

[xmancer]

I don't really like any of your answers. I really really don't want a rollback. I've done too many tasks that I really shouldn't have to do over. This doesn't take into account the fame bugs that were there before the patch either. As much as I hate to say this, I think just fixing the bugs and let players work on fixing their fame on thier own. Or come up with some tasks to counter the effects of this bug.

The *only* really bad impact of this is 'opening' an enemy aligned tribe. taking hits to already open stuff is something i'm happy to work around.

the smallest 'fix' that doesn't majorly wonk the fame system is to 'close' the tribes that got 'opened' via these bugs. which is what i meant by deleting them off my list. (option 1 in poll, which noone but me voted for...)

but - if a karavan tribe hasn't been cotacted at all, doing 1000s of pro-kami missions wont make them hate me any worse than deafault because they dont know about me. no contact - no effect.

having a pro karavan tribe erroneously 'opened' by a bug, and 20-30 kami missions later, they start being aggro to me personally. with (at a guess) 600 or so missions they will start being aggro to my entire guild. The tribes can, of course, be avoided. But some of the best forage areas in the high zones are in or near their camps, and in/near high traffic areas for the wanderers.

I can of course give up doing fame missions for my guild. As fame officer, it'd really suck. I enjoy doing them, its the thing i've put the most time into in game so far. But i can. (DT - how would you feel if you had to give up harvesting completely?)

[raynes]

Since you have done a lot of fame missions I am curious what level are you and what factions have you gotten so far. Besides the main ones I have managed to get Shadow Runners, Icon Worshippers, and Hamazans of the dead seed. I'm at level 72 melee and no one else seem to want to speak to me.