If you do fame missions.....

[xmancer]

As fame officer for my guild, i run hundreds of missions each day (when doing fame runs). Across yesterday and today I managed to find a number of bugged fame mission, where i would do missions for one entity (for example a Zoraii Hunter or a Matis Scout (and these are mission i had done prior to patch 1 with no problem)) and instead of getting the fame/faction i should - these mission gave me fame with tribes which i had never had contact before. In fact, it always gave me faction in a Karavan based tribe (and we are a Kami based guild)

Now its also guild policy to NEVER EVER contact these karavan tribes, since as soon as ANY ONE PERSON in guild does, then EACH and EVERY person in guild doing a kami/zoraii (or any other mission these tribe-guys dont like) will reult in personal and guild fame hits with that tribe's faction.

Now, while the individual cases of getting wrong fame are bugs, i have been told that "the fame system is working as intended. we will not roll back your fame, or the fame of anyone in your guild. [or otherwise correct this problem.]"

400 hours personally sunk into working on guild fame (yes its my lead activity), carfully planning and balancing various fames, with plans on how and when to approach karavan tribes later in game. a bunch of bugs new since patch 1, and slapdown as a response.

it not only hits me personally, but the entire guild. and its permanent, no way to undo contact, so forevermore fame with *at least* those three tribes is permanently going to suck, and if it can get to kill-on-site it will, just by having one in guild hit the bug once - doing missions of desired fame will hammer down these incorrectly opened up tribes. like the high lvl regions werent bad enough without having tribes go aggro on your entire guild from a single bugged mission.-

since the missions used to be fine, this means that ANY mission i havent tried since patch 1 could potentially add to the problem.

in case the effects of this arent clear... (A) I do a bugged mission, getting fame with a tribe that we dont want contact with (typically a high level region tribe of opposite kami/karavan alignment to my guild) (B) that tribe now shows up in the fame list for *everyone* in my guild (C) jojo does a mission for our normal fame (D) jojo now gets personal bad fame with this tribe (as well as adding to the guild un-fame with them) .... eventually the tribe will go kill-on-site to individuals the entire guild.

the only 'fix' to this is to reform the guild (and i havent tried, so this is a possible fix) with the following likely constraints:

person that did (A) or (C) above and has the tribe on their personal list may not be able to join at all (no idea if this alone will put the tribe back on the guild list - and if it does, then you need to reform guild a 3rd time) even if they can join without harm, they can never EVER do a mission again, since this will hit the tribe, and slam it onto the list of eveyone in guild....

so, there is a workaround.... for 11 million dap, and cutting out people from the guild, or at least from doing missions for the guild. woohoo, way to go nevrax! =(

[trollbod]

I do fame missions in fyros land,
there is lots of fame that looks strange to me,
I asked for them all and a gm said it is normal fame.

I love to have to play with all those difficulties.
I will be lvl 150 soon and I'll have 3 more tribes to play with.
it will be very fun

I hope you'll enjoy it as I do, good luck

[a02chrha]

Does it have any advantages having say 80 fame on leviers? will they help u if you come dragging powerfull beasts like city guards?

How about bad fame? Will they start aggro on -100 or something like that?

Or are the only current feature available the fame based missions and lower price on gear?

[elioth]

I play on Leanon and have similar issues with that topic. IMHO the whole faction system is all but well thought out. It only needs one careless member to fully disable faction gain. From a point where one member makes a wrong decision ONE time You might be unable to GAIN faction but only "trade" faction with Your guilds actions. 3rd party afffection in faction gain/loss is a good idea, but it needs to be balanced by differntiating direct influence and indirect influence. I wont start to discuss from the devs view but simply say "take a look into *others* faction systems and adopt".

what needs to be in a working faction system from MPOV:

- direct action FOR a faction X needs to raise Your standing towards X by amount +A, faction of X-enemy by amount -A/2 (half is an example), faction of X-ally by amount +A/3

-direct action AGAINST X:
X-faction: -A*2
X-enemy: +A/3
X-ally: -A/2

if this action includes DIRECT influence (i.e. killing X FOR X-enemy) with BOTH sides, simply sum up.

Each and every NPC belongs to several hirarchies of faction (folk, tribe, family)
include modifiers for the virtual "size" of the faction-group and You will be fine (a folks faction will alter slower than a families faction, because there are too many people to influence).

This way it might not always seem realistic but it avoids "dead ends" for the player. His actions still affect his gameplay but dont render him doomed in a weird faction situation, just because he did ONE mission fro the wrong tribe and now starts loosing faction with a folk, when he does missions with his own folk and is unable to undo that. There is a positive side effect: Players will be able to build faction fitting to THEIR characters background and are not hard-wired to the background of their "race". Imagine, there might be a fyros who starts to wonder, if burning the goo was the best idea to fight it or a matis who tries to understand what might have went wrong when his matisian anchestors genetically formed his world. A tryker might ask himself, why the Kami left the land of the lakes and goes on quest to recover his Kami-goodwill?. This will be supported by a flexible faction system like mentioned above. I am open for discussion and will happily deliver more details if asked.

Kind regards

Elioth, who left the great matisian houses to find refuge in what he(!) thinks is one of the basic elements: wood.
(he still loves his fellow matis-folk but supports the Zorai fight against the goo. Could You imagine that he still mistrusts the Kami? He does.)

[ahremark]

Does it have any advantages having say 80 fame on leviers? will they help u if you come dragging powerfull beasts like city guards?

How about bad fame? Will they start aggro on -100 or something like that?

Or are the only current feature available the fame based missions and lower price on gear?

I think fame will be more important once they begin to add quests (Patch 2), that's probably also when the roles of the NPC tribes will become more apparent.
The NPC tribes will likely be keepers of desireable items (Also Patch 2) and knowledge (For example special magic and combat stanzas) only obtainable if your fame among them is high enough.

That's my 2 dappers anyways

[xmancer]

Does it have any advantages having say 80 fame on leviers? will they help u if you come dragging powerfull beasts like city guards?

How about bad fame? Will they start aggro on -100 or something like that?

Or are the only current feature available the fame based missions and lower price on gear?

tribe with good fame will indeed aid you, and according to both GMs (NA's Mindadar) and a large guild (Melinoe) you will get aggro when fame gets bad enough, although neither had exact details on when this happens...

(in response to elioths post below) like i said no details on WHEN things get aggro (-100 global? personal?) but i can see no reason for GMs or players to lie. I'd love to find out more on this, if anyone wants to start a separate thread....

[elioth]

tribe with good fame will indeed aid you, and according to both GMs (NA's Mindadar) and a large guild (Melinoe) you will get aggro when fame gets bad enough, although neither had exact details on when this happens...

while the first case is valid, the second case at least to my experience is not.

[xmancer]

please delete this message

[weiseman]

The second case is also valid.
The Dragon Order of Abylus is at war against the Lawless tribe: they killed us for no reason when we entered their camp.
We'll soon see what start fame we have with them: we're going to have larger scale tribe troops vs guild team fights. As soon as a Lawless falls down dead we'll be able to see what start fame we had (prob -90 which went down to -100...).

I must add that only the lawless inside camp attacked us, the wandering groups are peacefull as usual.

[xmancer]

UPDATE: i have just found out that the worst effect i feared (that of contaminating my guildies fame) is incorrect. so panic level much reduced. I am still not able to run fame missions without negative impact (which sucks cause i was guild fame officer) but others in my guild can still run fame without hammering fame in the tribes that i opened to the guild.