"Do the devs play this game?"

[lazarus]

I've been visiting forums (and moderating a few) for several years now, and one of the more common phrases I've seen, especially on MMOG boards is "do the devs (actually) play this game?".

It may surprise you to learn that most devs actually don't play the games they make - all they see is code. Let me tell you how I know this...

I work for EA in one of the various QA departments (let me finish this post before you try and lynch me for working for EA) and during my time here I discovered that in general devs never see the actual games they're making. They see pages and pages of code, but not the actual results of that code. In fact, the first time they usually see the results of their work is when they get a copy of the game after it's released (a perk of working for a game company - you get a free copy of any game you work on).

This is why we in QA not only look for bugs, but also report on bad gameplay. If a feature sucks, we report it to our project leader and if he/she agrees, they will forward that to the producer for consideration, and they may or may not change it depending on various factors such as time remaining until release, how hard it is to fix, whether fixing will cause problems with other parts of the game and so on.

Now, I'm not sure how Nevrax do it, but you can be reasonably sure that they work to a similar process, so the next time you're tempted to say/think/post "do they devs play this game?", the truth is - they probably don't.

In this case, we are the QA team after a fashion. After all, we're the ones actually playing the game, so it is our responsibility (to an extent) to report bugs, broken features, exploits and nasty gameplay to them so they can fix it. The best way to do this is via the bug reporting tool, but most people tend to use the forums. I say this is our responsibility simply because we all want the game to work well so we can enjoy playing it, and we're far more likely to see issues than the QA team at Nevrax because we play more and there are more of us.

All I would say is if you are going to report something you think isn't right, the best way to do it is with a clear, concise post containing a clear step by step description of what the problem is, what you were doing when you found it, and how to recreate it, with as much detail as possible. Just saying "teh devs r all teh suXX0rZ i quit" won't help anyone, neither will just saying "combat is broken, fix it or else" as neither will help the dev team figure out how to fix the problem. To quote an old axiom - they can't fix it if they don't know what's broken.

Now, we all know there's been some problems with patch 1, and this has really highlighted this issue. A lot of people say something doesn't work, then a lot come and say it does and accuse the first group of not knowing what they're doing, and so the flames begin. I personally don't know what (if anything) is wrong with combat, because I rarely do it, but I wonder whether it's entirely the fault of the game or whether some people cannot/will not react to the changes and modify their play style accordingly. I'm not going to say either side is right because as I said, I don't know enough about the problem. It would seem however that something is amiss, simply from the size of the arguments.

What I will say is if you want to communicate an issue to the dev team, please try and do so in a calm, rational articulate manner - not just for combat, but for anything you come across in game that doesn't seem to be working properly. It also helps if you can get other people to try it, and see is they have the same problem as you.

This advice isn't really intended to solve the current issues, but more for future reference, as the patch 1 thing has been pretty much done to death already, and is in the process of (hopefully) being fixed. The current situation does show that the system does work to an extent as the devs are reacting to the concerns of the players. Whether they should or should not have applied patch 1 is now irrelevant.

[helbreat]

i agree the devs are relying on feedback from the players i posted some bugs i had happen today, a guide messaged me back about 10 mins later, to get more detailed events of what happend. Then said they have upgraded the ticket for dev team to look at. So it goes to show they are in need of bug lists to get these things delt with, so if people posted less on the forum and more bugs with the support tool wed see the fixes coming faster if they can come faster that is i notice that they are fixing bugs as we let them know of them

the bug i found btw was with dodge modifiers at least i think its a bug but i made some heavy pants today called "choice heavy kostom pants with dodge modifier" yet the dodge modifier is +0 lol and when you craft jewelry with elemental protection it says 0% surely they cant have added all this extra stuff to mobs and not implemented elemental def (against goari lightning or ocyx fire) or dodgeless armours (watch me move like a brick and sink like one too)

[usinuk]

Good post Lazarus. My only real issues are that the communication between the devs and players is nonexistent due to business model decisions by Nevrax that have been taken a bit too far...and that the communication given them on patch 1 via the ATS was basically ignored.

I for one will continue trying to give good feedback as best I can. The lack of a thread consisting of known and acknowledged bugs I think is just a really dumb move by either Nevrax or, more likely, the CSR firms that are running the boards.

[wicker]

I find that hard to believe. They SHOULD at least play it a little. That would be like someone making a webpage and only looking at the code and never seeing the actual page. That would be rediculas. No offence but EA has a lot of cookie cutter games and tons of sequals and they just crank games out like a candy factory. Probably using game templates for the base of most their games. Maybe they knew the games and code well already on most those. I'd imagine most devs have dual monitors. Writing the code on one and seeing it in action on the other.

Sure they probably don't play it like how the players would and enjoy it. They dont have to the time to and probably arn't really diehard game enthusiests. I'm sure they do rely on us a lot to tell them what is fun or not or what might be wrong.

[yy48n19]

Nice, informative post, Lazarus. Thanks for that, and encouraging people to voice any criticism in a constructive way, rather than slinging insults or blame.

[keriann]

no, devs doens't play this game. nuff said.

[lazarus]

I find that hard to believe. They SHOULD at least play it a little. That would be like someone making a webpage and only looking at the code and never seeing the actual page. That would be rediculas. No offence but EA has a lot of cookie cutter games and tons of sequals and they just crank games out like a candy factory. Probably using game templates for the base of most their games. Maybe they knew the games and code well already on most those. I'd imagine most devs have dual monitors. Writing the code on one and seeing it in action on the other.

Sure they probably don't play it like how the players would and enjoy it. They dont have to the time to and probably arn't really diehard game enthusiests. I'm sure they do rely on us a lot to tell them what is fun or not or what might be wrong.

EA aren't the only ones. I've worked for some of the biggest (and smallest) names in the industry and in the majority of cases the devs don't have time to do anything but write code then fix bugs.

You're right in a sense that many games are 'cookie cutter' nowadays, again EA by no means being the only culprit. The issue is that games are big business now, and have been likened to the film industry with regard to budgets and production schedules. The upshot of this is that very few companies are willing/able to take a chance on an untested format for a game. Point in question - look at the current top selling and most wanted games...

PS2 - GTA San Andreas. Franchise and sequel
GCN - Metroid Prime - Franchise
PC - Half Life 2 - Franchise and sequel
Xbox - Halo 2 - Sequel

Just about every game coming out now is either part of a franchise, a sequel or a licensed product (ie movies etc). The only people with the cash to buy these licenses are the big companies like EA, Atari, Activision, THQ, Sega etc (all of whom I have worked for) and they are unfortunately run by bean counters. Anyone noticed in the games press recently how many small independant studios have either been bought up by big companies or simply disappeared?

There's a simple reason for this - if the games they're making aren't guaranteed to be a hit and make a stack of money, no-one will pick up the publishing for it, so they tend to stick to what they know will sell. Part of this is caused by the amount of money needed these days to make a game - GTA San Andreas for example cost a reported £8 million to make. That's a lot of money.

And you're right - they should play at least a little, but believe me in the vast majority of cases they don't. No dual monitors, nothing. In fact, the only time the code is installed in a playable format generally in the dev studio is to capture screenshots and movies for marketing purposes.

To sum up - a friend of mine worked as a dev for many years, and was last involved on a certain MMOG that was cancelled earlier this year. He came to work at EA in the QA team because he was tired of never seeing what he worked on until it was released...

[sprite]

I agree with you completely Lazarus, and I would post more tickets, but the in-game Support feature is broken for me :-/ Yes I submitted a ticket, and it still doesn't work. I'll try it again though

[jokque]

Well its understandable that a few QA people cant test everything that gets added in a mmorpg, heck i played anarchy online for a year and still havent seen 50% of the game
But that is what the ATS server is for right ? Then why dont they pay attention to what the people testing say, instead of ignoring it completely, making the ATS kinda useless

[krone9]

But that is what the ATS server is for right ? Then why dont they pay attention to what the people testing say, instead of ignoring it completely, making the ATS kinda useless

not sure I could possibly agree more.

If it needs testing, hire testers. Same as every other software development company.