My thoughts after the patch

[flynnkd]

(I posted these originally over at MMORPG.com, but thought I may as well get an extra post marking here as well... lol)

Lets just start by saying that I enjoyed SoR before the patch, and after it I am still forming an opinion. (but mostly positive)

Before the patch there was something wrong. I was in a group of characters that were levels 80-120 in range, and we were fairly easily handling level 200 mobs. Part of this was due to the Blind exploit, part was due to the fact that the mobs simply were not up to scratch (didnt do enough damage). I have no idea how this slipped thru the beta, but to me it was obvious something needed changing. My suspicions about betas are that players play them to gain advantage, not always to test them, and often the real testers (the ones there because they want a better game) do not push on to the end game. Hence the people at the end game do not tell you the exact truth... but that is a whole new post.

Nevrax obviously picked up that something was wrong, people were leveling very fast, especially the harvestors. I came to SOR with an opinion that level 250 would take me around 9-12 months, possibly longer depending on how the game was balanced. In two weeks I was level 80 in melee and 60 in several other lines. WAYYY to easy. I could solo at will vs mobs my level and get good exp. I could group with 3-4 others and do higher level mobs such that we all got max exp every kill.

The patch has rebalanced the melee, mobs do a lot more damage but have a lot less HPs. This means that fights are mostly very fast, if you havent killed it in 3-5 hits then you are likely dead. This changes the entire balance of the skill set. Before skill s like Attack after Parry were very useful, they saved Stamina and did good damage, before you had to conserve your melee as you more oftne then not ran out of Stamina, which meant high damage skills like Increase Damage 5-6-7 etc were not often used unless you had an easy kill. NOW - now you start with MAX damage skills, the fight is over so fast that Stamina is NOT an issue, which means skills like Attack after Parry are less important, because so few exchnages are made that they are not triggered.

Before grouping was an option, AFTER grouping is required if you wish to maximise exp and take on mobs above your level.

Before solo was easy, AFTER it is hard, and exp is much less. HOWEVER it is not impossible. I experimented last night and I was able to kill level 70 kipees with my level 84 melee... it was close but I was able to do it repeatedly as long as I was careful. It meant there was more down time tho (you cant heal yourself in SOR except with a timer based self heal - so every 3-4 mins). I tried to kill the same mobs in caster mode and it was more difficult but I was able to do it, but not anywhere near as safely. In combined mode it was the most easy - start with 2 casts, then melee them dead.

Exp during these solo tests ranged from 50 to 3000 on one very lucky kill, average was around 1000-1500.

I then joined a group of 2 others, all of us were in offensive mage mode, and we were all running around killing equal and greater levels mobs (robust frippos to raspals) WITHOUT a care in the world. IT WAS EASY!!! We could pull 2 raspals and have them dead in 5 seconds, before it could kill the caster who got agro. And if he did die, well we healed him up and continued... GROUPING is good! Off Magic is much better, Healing is now excellent.

Implications to me: fighting at the low end of the game (less than 100) is quick. After that I suspect it will begin slowing down again, which will bring Stamina back into the equation, which will return Attack After Parry skills to real usefulness, which will mean grouping, which will mean healers and off casters and crowd control and and and and.... Does this sound like fun or what !!!

Those of you who are unable to to kill a yubo are simple doomsayers (edit unless you are a new character, seems they cant kill a yubo after all... lol), you havent really tried. I died 3 times last night testing out all the changes, big deal, it was fun experimenting and learning, and 120K DP is nothing.

My biggest gripe is the server population and an amazing (almost stunning) resistance to grouping in the game. I play on the UK server but I am Australian, My prime time consists of a few other aussies and insomniacs. Getting a group is really hard because half the players are harvestor/crafters and half the rest are soloers, and half the rest are AFK etc etc. Not to mention level differences (although this is no where near as big a problem as it is with other games).

I am still adjusting to the changes, but for now I consider them a favourable change. It is annoying that it has occurred after launch, I fully agree that the devs must have stuffed up somewhere, but for heavens sake name a game that didnt stuff up in its first year (and yes there may be 1 or 2 but there are lots more that stuffed up). People tend to forget if they are enjoying themselves, others leave and find another game. Each to your own.

Just because you dont like what has happened doesnt mean the game isnt still a good one. AO had a disastrous launch, but it is doing great now. Things can and do get better.

Patch 1 to my post....

I think the drive of the devs is to make Ryzom a grouping game, and the solo content will progressively reduce as you gain levels. I think this is because most people these days see MMORPGs as a 'social' game, and player retention is more greatly ensured by promoting a 'social' environment. Look at all the posts by people who are leaving... most of them seem to be soloist. The few that are from 'socialists' (sic) are covered with 'goodbye to all my friends'. Socialists dont leave their friends, and thus are longer term customers. From a purely economic stand point SOR is probably not overly effected by losing 25% of its current customer base now, because they would simply have lost them on 9 Nov or 23 Nov. Soloists play to beat the game, when they cant do this they leave. Socialists play to enjoy themselves, to be challenged and to overcome...

My self I am a mix of the two, I like doing both, but all my greatest memories from EQ are ones that were with a group of 5 friends, and I suspect that SOR is heading this way somewhat more determinedly than most like.

Reaction to a patch of this magintude is understandable, but I think pre-mature in a lot of instances. My tests show me that what a lot of doom-sayers are posting is utter rubbish - and they are burying the valid comments that the devs need to see.

Each to his own.

[lazarus]

Nuff said

Oh, except that the harvest changes are unbelievable. We can now supply mats quickly and cheaply, while not gaining massive and ridiculous amounts of XP (enough to level at a reasonable rate - I went from 108 to 110 today foraging q100 mats). On my own, I can now supply myself with crafting mats, plus at least one other person.

I reckon Nevrax have finally got foraging just right. I just wish I had a bigger packer

[geezas]

verry nice post flynnkd

[art3an]

Right on spot

Agree to a lot. Soloing sure IS harder even for an off mage (talking n00b lvls here though ~40 ). Primarily because of the frequent resists of the affliction spells. Its very doable as long as I can keep the mobs at distance, but when they come close it doesnt take many hits before Im down. And, theres the challenge that makes it fun

[borguk]

Nice post, dont agree with alot of it but thats my opinion.

[karibi]

I enjoyed the post. Was a nice read at 4:30am (over in East Coast America... stupid Bush). However, I solo. I enjoy soloing. I play the game because I enjoy playing the game, I don't try to beat it. I don't want to beat it. I'm a sort of loner by nature and I do no tlike being forced into group situations. This is usually why I quit a game, because there becomes a point where it is so difficult to solo that there is no choice but to group.
I soloed in EQ up to about level 40 (was a druid). I could still solo but it was very slow and my downtime was usually 10-15 minutes. I ended up quitting and moving to AC2 which is fun, and easy to both solo and group.

I beta tested Ryzom for about a week (then it went to the final selected stage thing) and waited for its release. I downloaded the game a few days ago (Monday, I think) and began playing. Cool. Just as wonderful as I remembered. I hope some of these fighting problems are fixed, otherwise it may be just another "Okay. I'm bored, I did my school work, and I don't feel like studying foreign language right now." placeholder until Darkfall comes out.
But, I shall wait and I shall see. I was impressed at the mini-patche's speed. And the changes are kind of fun to experience.

[kieeps66]

I think this was a great post
It's so true that this game is turning out to be a social and group based game. thats the picture i got from it from the very first second i played it. and i think Nevrax want's people to start grouping instead of solo, but it must be hard to try to balance the game that way since people will always solo alot and when something goes wrong they will complain.

It's a big risk Nevrax takes by trying to achieve this. i wuld rather se that you CAN solo easyer but maby on mobs that only gives 1000-2000 exp while ye can group to get max. not exactly as it was before p1 cus that was to easy. and now it's a lil to hard. we shuld have been warned about this since i'w miss-spent alot of my SP on "after dodge" and "bleed" and other skills that turned useless since fights take about 10 sec nowdays.


I'm not sure i like to complain about the game acctualy. i'm SO in love with ryzom and i think the staff is great. even though they dont post in this forum alot they still does a good job listening to players and acctualy trying to fix problems as fast as possible. the only problem now is i think that it can be hard to know the acctualy problem since most players post stuff like "wtf crapy game **** its destroyed im out of here". maby try to make a list of reasonable! stuff we wuld like to see in the next fix

[borguk]

I think this was a great post
It's so true that this game is turning out to be a social and group based game. thats the picture i got from it from the very first second i played it. and i think Nevrax want's people to start grouping instead of solo, but it must be hard to try to balance the game that way since people will always solo alot and when something goes wrong they will complain.

It's a big risk Nevrax takes by trying to achieve this. i wuld rather se that you CAN solo easyer but maby on mobs that only gives 1000-2000 exp while ye can group to get max. not exactly as it was before p1 cus that was to easy. and now it's a lil to hard. we shuld have been warned about this since i'w miss-spent alot of my SP on "after dodge" and "bleed" and other skills that turned useless since fights take about 10 sec nowdays.


I'm not sure i like to complain about the game acctualy. i'm SO in love with ryzom and i think the staff is great. even though they dont post in this forum alot they still does a good job listening to players and acctualy trying to fix problems as fast as possible. the only problem now is i think that it can be hard to know the acctualy problem since most players post stuff like "wtf crapy game **** its destroyed im out of here". maby try to make a list of reasonable! stuff we wuld like to see in the next fix

All really successful MMOGs cater for both solo and team play, I think Planetside really got this right. If you force the game down either route with no balance you alienate one set of ppl. I like to team and I like to solo, but I wouldnt want to do either all the time.

[keriann]

All really successful MMOGs cater for both solo and team play, I think Planetside really got this right. If you force the game down either route with no balance you alienate one set of ppl. I like to team and I like to solo, but I wouldnt want to do either all the time.

good said, BALANCE the two. make areas hard to go solo, and areas (expecially the STARTING ONES) where you can solo all the time if you want. give more Variety and don't force people to group or else. if you want to promote grouping raise the xp taken in groups of 10% each member after the first. and if you are scared people will level up too fast.. add other 250 levels.