Why doesn't increased damage work on ranged weapons?

[shenan]

There seems to be no explanation for this... rifles have about the same base damage/speed as two-handed melee, why doesn't increased damage work with them?

Aside from serious issues with ammo, why do ranged weapons only have *half* the damage output of an equivalent melee weapon?

[tetra]

IMHO ranged weapons are an unfinished thing that they want to do stuff with, but don't have time and don't want to do halfway. That and I have a feeling they are trying to somewhat avoid the "heavy scifi" label that the "i don't like scifi" crowd stuck to AO:SL's mysticism. For now just give it a bit I think.

[khayne]

Yeah...its kinda like how shields don't really work...at all...

Some things are just nerfed from the very beginning...who knows if they'll ever be fixed

[fellgrim]

To broaden the scope of your question, why don't any of the specialized melee skills (increase dam, bleed, slow, etc.) work with ranged weapons?

These skills are all found in the ranged fight 'book', but are unable to be utilized by ranged fighters. All ranged fighters are able to use is 'accurate attack' (which is pretty redundant since my ranged attacks rarely ever miss altogether) and 'hit x body part of x critter' (which typically wears off before the next shot if you do land one successfully). As it stands, the ranged fight skill 'book' is a carbon copy of the melee 'book'. And that's not helpful.

I'd really like to see an official comment on this issue, Nevrax. What plans are there to make ranged fight a viable (godforbid desirable!) skill and under what timetable?

[mikwana]

Actually... Ranged fight is good. however, you need a good weapon, and well crafted ammo. It's the same as Melee, just more expensive.

A difference, however, is that you need mental balance, not str to wield ranged weapons. In addition, those 'aim at x' options are VERY usefull when using ranged weapons, especially when PVP (all those who don't wear gloves beware!), or fighting other humanoids, since most of them don't wear helmets, you can negate any armor they have. Many critters also have a single weak spot, the trick is finding that spot.

Ranged combat is also good for those mages who run out of stamina. Whip out a pistol and continue to deal decent damage while safely out of range.

During raids (soon to be happening regularly) launchers and autolaunchers will become HIGHLY prized.

Keep in mind, a fighter using an increase damage that misses half the time due to dodges/parries/just missing, is still dealing about the same damage as the rifleman who rarely (if ever with the increase accuracy) deals.

[jesder]

Actually... Ranged fight is good. however, you need a good weapon, and well crafted ammo. It's the same as Melee, just more expensive.

So what race are you playing and what weapons are you using?

The limited rounds per clip is the biggest issue. Gathering enough mats to make choice ammo takes a long time. To make launcher ammo takes 13 mats and you get 3 rounds and a max clip size of 6. The damage is good and has AoE, but really the amount of time needed to level ranged (without taking advantage of a group) is just insane if you include gathering mats.

I dont see why we cannot stack rounds up to qty 99. I know autolauncher ammo has a max clip size of ~96 however the max aside from them is 12 (at least with zoria plans). Too bad autolaunchers are much lower damage than launchers, dont seem to be as effective against a group, and the ammo requires more mats.

[usinuk]

Actually... Ranged fight is good.

Huh? There aren't a lot of us who have 'range fighter' as a title option, but since I do let me put my limited but very painful grind of experience on the topics to work. (Edited for tone and content once I saw the poster has some ranged experience.)

however, you need a good weapon, and well crafted ammo. It's the same as Melee

Lets look at this objectively. On those occasions that I use q50 choice ammo (9 mats per 12 clip) - I prefer saving good mats for armor, since you only need 2 clips of mats plus some fiber and sap for q50 armor you can sell at 40k per set - my damage ends 90% up the way up the damage bar when I craft it - yes, I use choice oath bark. I use a a q50 weapon that is made of choice mats except for my barrel and pin, made from ragus parts as that is the only way to get range up to 80% with damage at roughly 50%.

Haven't tried excellent mats. Not sure I want to waste them on ammo.

Damage is roughly 75 per shot per rifle round...at about 16 shots a minute. When I've made an all choice max damage weap my damage goes up to about...77 per shot.

My 1H q50 lance does about 95 per attack, at 20 hits a minute. My 2H q50 pike does 128 per attack, 19 hits a minute. I didn't use max damage/speed mats for either.

Base damage even without the stanzas is far lower. And if you choose the wrong ammo for a target it will be even lower than that...and btw, piercing doesn't armor pierce.

, just more expensive.

That much is true. Cost me 2m dappers to go from 21-50 even using a few tricks.

A difference, however, is that you need mental balance, not str to wield ranged weapons. In addition, those 'aim at x' options are VERY usefull when using ranged weapons, especially when PVP (all those who don't wear gloves beware!), or fighting other humanoids, since most of them don't wear helmets, you can negate any armor they have. Many critters also have a single weak spot, the trick is finding that spot.

I have yet to notice much of a difference most of the time using aim stanzas. Granted, I have head and leg shots (stun/slow is what I try for), but by the time I get one of those rare stuns with a header the mob is already on me and I'm using a peashooter. This is also nothing that I can't accomplish better with melee weapons, including aiming at hands (although I will admit I hadn't thought about that one.) As I get more skill points I will try to find that magical 'weak spot', and will probably screw around a little tomorrow with throwaway stanzas that I can reset after patch.

Ranged combat is also good for those mages who run out of stamina. Whip out a pistol and continue to deal decent damage while safely out of range.

I assume you mean run out of sap. Several problems here. Range with a pistol seems to be capped at 30 meters - not the 50m of acid 1 - and nothing in the tree can be used to stop or turn a mob if they decide to come up to you (I actually have put fear on my pistols but rarely take the time to use it.) Second, if the mob gets up close and personal you will get clobbered while you're equipping a pistol from a mage staff. (Although, in fairness, if you're a mage wearing light armor you're toast if the mob decides to melee you anyway.) And we've already established ranged damage stinks...a full 1/3 of acid 5 with a good amp, or 1/2 without one. More useful sitting and recovering sap than shooting if you're in a group.

During raids (soon to be happening regularly) launchers and autolaunchers will become HIGHLY prized.

We'll see about the frequency of raids...I'm not holding my breath.

As far as launchers and autolaunchers, I hope the raids occur near stables as you frankly can't carry enough ammo - too much bulk - for more than about 30 shots or so...and they are a nice way to pick up massive aggro but not kill stuff. I'll take mage bomb over it any day.

Keep in mind, a fighter using an increase damage that misses half the time due to dodges/parries/just missing, is still dealing about the same damage as the rifleman who rarely (if ever with the increase accuracy) deals.

Or you can do what most of us melee types do and do a custom A3D3 stanza that has acc attack/inc damage in one stanza, miss far less frequently, and deal massively more damage per second.

I've posted my suggested fixes for ranged elsewhere. More range, more damage, more ranged specific skills. Enough said.

[mikwana]

Zoraï, Pistols, Rifles, and Autolaunchers.. though after the patch, I'll still have ranged weapons, but not sure which.

Pistol or rifle ammo will cost 100 per shot per QL, Launcher/autolauncher I've not worked out.

Actually, gathering the mats really isn't that hard once you find the spots to get them. For instance, I found a great place to get QL 50 Excellent Mixtexi bark, which is stunningly great for ammo, lining is easy and explosive is all over the place. Added they now have even more resources with patch 1....

Also in patch one (though no mention after it's initial time) is that pistol/rifle ammo will be stackable. Not a big deal, but will make inventory much more organized.

Just have to decide how to re-do skills(groan).

Rhedyn

[vanderpm]

Actually... Ranged fight is good. however, you need a good weapon, and well crafted ammo. It's the same as Melee, just more expensive.
...
Ranged combat is also good for those mages who run out of stamina. Whip out a pistol and continue to deal decent damage while safely out of range.
...
Keep in mind, a fighter using an increase damage that misses half the time due to dodges/parries/just missing, is still dealing about the same damage as the rifleman who rarely (if ever with the increase accuracy) deals.

Decent damage actually really doesnt exsist. A level 51 fighter with a Q50 2h sword can use increase damage and to between 300 and 400 damage per hit missing between 1/4 and 1/2 of the time. A level 50 rifleman with a good Q50 rifle and top damage Q50 ammo can deal out 105 per shot, at a slightly slower attack speed than the 2h sword, and missing less often. If I didnt do my sketchy math entirely incorrectly, the sword still wins.
And last I checked the Aim stanzas didn't work correctly, if they did it would be nice tho, and might help out a bit.

[vanderpm]

I've posted my suggested fixes for ranged elsewhere. More range, more damage, more ranged specific skills. Enough said.

I'd like to second, third and fourth that motion! And somewhere in there I think I firsted it too but who is counting.

Heres to hoping that ranged becomes a viable skill tree.