"Gentle extraction with Rate 1.0" please explain

[browserice]

In gaining 10xp for harvesting, I was looking at which new skills to get. I saw the one called "Gentle extraction with Rate 1.0" which said it extracts more quantity. I was using Gentle extraction 50 so I figured maybe I could edit it to use Q50 materials and extract more. I took it.

Upon editing it, it has :
speed 1 harmfull
rate 1 gentle
q10 harmfull
extract counterpart 3



So I changed it to :
speed 1 harmfull => no changes
rate 1 gentle => no changes
q50 harmfull => increased
extract counterpart 4 => increased


Using my new "Gentel extraction with Rate 1.0" on Q50 nodes produces less quantity then a standard "Gentle extraction 50".

Why ?

Is this gentle Rate 1 only for Q10 ?
Is there a Gentle Rate 5 for Q50 ? If so, why not make it available now since I am harvesting lvl 40 and already extractin Q50 ???

[jamela]

What you did was perfectly fine. All you really did, I expect, was to change the extraction action you were already using to include the Gentle Rate 1 stanza rather than Harmful Rate 1 stanza but then also change your Gentle Quality for Harmful Quality. You shouldn't expect to extract any extra materials for each action because the Rate is still only level 1. On the other hand, Harmful Quality actions damage sources much more than Harmful Rate actions. Include both Gentle Quality and Rate in a single action.

[iwojimmy]

For some reason unknown to me, the digging upgrades for speed and rate are only available at the trainers packaged with a complete dig action.
However, since the other bricks they are packaged with will be the starting/harmful stanzas, plus whatever counterpart is necessary to cover the actual upgrade, chances are that you will already have purchased and learned the other bits - meaning the only cost in skill points is for the stanza you do wish to learn.

By comparison, magic trainers allow you to learn the upgrades without the complete spell, once you have first learnt it. So my magic trainer list is full of stuff costing 3 SP - because I picked the upgrades and refused to buy the time credits

It is an annoyance, having to delete the action after learning it from the trainer .. because all I wanted was the upgrade which I edit into my existing action. Same for crafting.

[gillest]

Every extraction stanza is defined by 3 stanzas having different effect:
1-Speed
2-Rate
3-Quality

All 3 have a gentle and a harmful version (gentle only becomes available when the Harmful one has been learned).
Starting by the latest:
3- Quality is obviously the maximum quality u can get out of one source. This one is the one that will affect your exp the most.
2- Rate is how fast the quality increase every action: so higher rate, the less actions turns will it take to reach ur maxi quality.
1- Speed is how fast one extracting action will be (one cycle): high speed means u will have possibility to make more cycles during time of the source is open... Also mean u will run out of focus faster...

All of the upgrade of those 3 are useful to learn.
Nevertheless for more stable harvesting at start i would recommend the following set up:
1 Gentle speed
2 Harmful rate
3 Gentlel quality (maxi available at trainors).

Obviously, there are many other set up and we all have different way of digging. This set up is just more stable at the start and require less care planning (be careful tho, makes very big blasts ).
After some experimentations anyway, you will soon find the stanza that suits you the best

[iceaxe68]

There are several good guides out there on the internet which explain harvesting and the stanzas which make up the various actions, such as extraction, careplanning, and prospecting.

My personal favorite is here:
http://pegasus-foundation.com/forum/for ... 91&posts=4

[neniti]

[quote=""browserice"]Using my new "Gentel extraction with Rate 1.0" on Q50 nodes produces less quantity then a standard "Gentle extraction 50".

Why ?[/quote]
you runned out of focus ? or did you kill your source maybe ?

There are several good guides out there on the internet which explain harvesting and the stanzas which make up the various actions, such as extraction, careplanning, and prospecting.

.. and flashback for silan tutorials...
extracting actions, extraction of raw materials

[vguerin]

Using my new "Gentel extraction with Rate 1.0" on Q50 nodes produces less quantity then a standard "Gentle extraction 50".

The quantity available in a node is not dependant on the stanza you use to harvest it.

You are more likely burning out your "source life" life by not self careplanning. Self careplanning is almost required (and is still tricky) using a harmful extraction method.

Like all stanza's, each of your harvesting stanza's should be tweaked to suit your harvesting style. A combination of harmful and gentle may give you the best results in both experience and focus used.

[jared96]

You have learned the primary harvesting axiom of Ryzom Harvesting and that is "Harvetsing Stinks" ... well at least up till Level 60 or so.....

As someone else said....

Every extraction stanza is defined by 3 stanzas having different effect:
1-Speed
2-Rate
3-Quality

Quality is easiest to address. If you are level 20, you can buy and use Level 30 gentle extraction w/o much difficulty. Harmful extraction, which ya could get at level 15, pull mats more aggressively but therefore requires more careplanning. Gentle requires less careplanning.

Not much really to say about speed and rate other than the higher they are, the more mats you get and the more focus you burn. The key is finding the correct balance which will change as more and more focus becomes available.

IIRC, back in that range I seemd to have the most success "balance wise" with Harmful Rate and Gentle Speed. It also mut be note dthat how many mats you pull depends in part upon your prospecting action. Getting a hghe rlevel of "MultiSpot" for example doesn't only allow you to pop more "cabbages" but also makes them stay around for a longer time. Time Bonus also lets them stay around for a longer time but that is , not necessarily a good thing.

And also keep in mind that how many mats and xp you get "per pull" is not as important as how many you get "per prospect". For example, having finished PR and desert I wanted for some strange reason to dig Lake Region. I find myself working my way through the 220's levels and I can choose to dig 3 pulls at 20 mats per pull (w/ time bonus) or 5 pulls at 16 mats per pull (w/o time bonus) average.

5 x 16 > 3 x 20

So choosing 5 x 16 generates me 33% more mats and xp per hour of effort.....so kind of a "no brainer"

So, experiment. Try and get as many "pulls" per prospect as you can. That having been established see how many mats you can get w/ different variations. Of course getting dead is a big XP killer.....not only DP but focus generally taked and lost mats / xp on the boom.

.
As you climb in levels, you will find that a "two step" can do better than a single step. I use what we call "the xycox shuffle" a 2 step variation named after the toon name of the peep who was the first I know of in game to use it. I been using it so long that if I use a greslin pick and don't have to cp or if a cp'er jumps in to help me I invariably screw up the pull as my brain is just too ingrained with it.....1st step....2 cp's....2nd step and put mats in bag.