An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

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karquile
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An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by karquile »

In his [post=26892]Open Letter To New Players[/post], veteran German player Acridiel tries to let new Homins know something about what the Ryzom world is like, so that they won't get frustrated and leave. As a new player myself who is a veteran of other games, I would like to reply.

The very best thing about Acridiel's message is simply that it exists. Ryzom is far from the only MMO with a genuinely welcoming and helpful community, but it is certainly an excellent example. And so I give Acridiel full credit and thanks for taking the time to write his letter.

Unfortunately, it has some inaccuracies and does not (in my view) adequately address why new players today get frustrated and leave. But I agree with him that Ryzom is a wonderful game and players shouldn't quit. So I am going to revisit his points and add my own.

Each of Acridiel's points raises three questions:
  1. How accurate is it with respect to the current version of the game?
  2. If it's accurate, how unique to Ryzom is it compared to other games?
  3. If it's accurate, how much does it have to do with new players getting frustrated and quitting?
The first point Acridiel makes is: Ryzom is very, very, very hard to compare to other games. With all due respect, I have seen and played games (like Seed and Vendetta) that were genuinely hard to compare to other MMO's. Ryzom isn't anywhere near that unusual. And the proof is that Acridiel himself makes a lot of comparisons in the rest of his letter. So I can't call this claim accurate. And it's certainly not why players quit - they don't stay in one game because it's easy to compare and leave another because it's hard to compare.

Then Acridiel gets into the following numbered list of descriptive bullet points about Saga of Ryzom. These are his points, not mine.

1. Ryzom´s a Sandbox-Kind-of-Game. Accurate - it is a sandbox as opposed to narrative type of game. Unique? Certainly not. EVE Online is a sandbox. Second Life is the ultimate sandbox. Original SWG (before they destroyed it) was a sandbox. EQ2 is pretty sandboxy. And so forth. And does this have anything to do with why new players quit? Maybe a little, but let's be clear on the reasons. Some people just don't like sandboxes. You can't force them to stay once they find out Ryzom isn't narrative. What worries me more are the people who just don't like inadequately documented sandboxes - more on that later.

2. Ryzom´s got Invasion. Accurate in the past - I haven't seen one happen since the new owners took over, but as long as they retain Jolt I expect this will continue. But every major MMO has dev- and GM-puppeteered in-game events; it's the one feature every publisher seems to agree is worth having. Do new players leave today because of Invasion? It seems more likely that Acridiel is thinking back to some complaint of the past. As a new player in today's Ryzom I couldn't care less about Invasion, would probably look on with interest if it occurred or take a few days off if I felt I couldn't handle it, and certainly not quit the game either way.

3. Ryzom is Teamplay. I can't call this claim accurate because it's completely subjective. Certainly there are situations where it makes a lot of sense to be part of a team, so people can monitor each other's health and do other protections. But solo play can be very rewarding as well. Ryzom isn't teamplay, Ryzom is whatever happens within Ryzom, team or solo. At any rate, Ryzom shares this in common with about 65 other MMO's, and I do not think that players are quitting because it sometimes helps to be in a team. They're unlikely to find any other MMO to play where this isn't true.

4. Ryzom´s got community. Absolutely accurate - Ryzom has a great community, or rather several of them (also a problem - more on that later). But in fairness, every single MMO out there, from the smallest to the biggest and the oldest to the newest, has something on the website or the forum stickies or the guidebooks or all of the above, saying "The best thing about PeppermintQuest is the Community!" It's a total MMO cliche'. True for Ryzom, true for every game. And from what I've seen in the last month, players these days are certainly not quitting because they think there's no community.

5. Ryzom isn´t E-Sport! (meaning don't just grind levels). I have to call this one highly inaccurate - grinding is an essential aspect of Ryzom and this is obvious the more time you spend in-game. Precisely because it is a sandbox, getting the skills you need requires grinding. Yes, ideally we should all stop and smell the roses along the way. But just you wait until your guild wants to take out some boss and your offensive skill is 40 points lower than anyone else's. Catalyst crystals wouldn't exist if grinding weren't a necessary evil. And again, this is common to many or most MMO's. Are players quitting because of the grind? I'd say yes among other reasons.

6. Ryzom´s got no real "Endgame" - this may be a language or terminology difference. The endgame in a MMO generally means whatever style of gameplay takes hold once your character has stopped gaining levels/skills. It's true that because Ryzom has so many skill tree branches, you never really need to stop "growing" in some area or other, but at the same time, once you've hit 250 in several of your primary chosen skill areas (combat, crafting etc) your gameplay does switch from "leveling" to more social and/or PvP oriented stuff, along with supporting your guild, tackling bosses, and enjoying those in-game events. That's the endgame. We might say that Ryzom's endgame is different from some other MMO's - just as those MMOs' endgames are different from each other. We can't say Ryzom doesn't have an endgame. Also, by definition, this issue is not causing new players to quit.

7. Ryzom´s got no Instances. This is accurate (so far!) and interesting to know, but frankly, at Ryzom's player population, not really an issue for anyone. Instances become necessary when crowds interfere with looting rares. Ryzom has no crowds to speak of and few rares. There are other MMO's without instances, if anyone really cared - again, "No instances - I'm quitting" is not a complaint I've heard. But it is an interesting fact about the game, at least until it changes...

8. Ryzom´s got a Staff that cares! Wow, this is an understatement! The staff (both devs and CSRs) are wonderful. Of course this is hardly unique to Ryzom. Many MMO's have wonderful personnel behind them. Ryzom is simply a good example. I sure wouldn't want to think that any new players were quitting because they thought the staff didn't care - they definitely do. Having said this, we don't know for a fact whether the new owners will continue to employ Jolt to manage the English speaking side - or what will happen to the existing devs. So let's hope this point stays true in six months.

9. Ryzom´s hard to solo. As someone who actually is soloing two characters - one guilded, one non-guilded - I find this accurate, but the context is important. Soloing when you're a high-skill veteran player in the toughest areas is one thing. I'm sure that's hard, although I'm not there yet myself, and I'm also sure that new players aren't quitting because it's hard to get to level 230 in the Prime Roots. Soloing when you're trying to crack 38 in Melee - which is more relevant to the new player experience - is something else. It is extremely doable, even if you start on the Mainland (I took one toon straight there as a test) and even easier if you get the most out of the starter isle of Silan first. But it's just a dreary grind. Your enemy isn't some social aggro mob, it's boredom. The grind is one reason people quit. And unfortunately, social play doesn't really lessen the grind. It makes it more fun, but in turn you have to spend more hours.

10. Ryzom has gut no real "Quests". This is not accurate from a new player's perspective in today's game. The NPC's on Silan do give out "real" missions (=quests) that are not repeatable, have specific goals, that grant Experience Points and useful loot (amplifiers, sword etc) and are intended to teach you the game. Acridiel alludes to this in a footnote, but for noobs it stands front and center as the Ryzom experience. It's true that once you eventually transition to the Mainland the handholding "other MMO style" missions dry up. And that may contribute to player burnout, especially if people got used to having "the next thing" handed to them. I get the impression that more, not fewer, "real Quests" are in our future for this reason.

11. Ryzom´s got no Classes. Absolutely true and interesting; absolutely not unique to Ryzom; absolutely not why new players are quitting. People like having options. That's one reason Ryzom is excellent.

Well, that was Acridiel's list. Now let me give you my top 5 reasons why I think new players in today's 2006-2007 edition of Saga Of Ryzom are quitting, and what we need to do about it.

1. The client is a pig. It's not the 1.7GB download size, which is middle of the pack for modern MMO's, although you could argue that a small game like Ryzom, hungry for new customers, might want a smaller trial size. Nor is it the 7GB unpacked footprint. Ryzom is a pig because the running game client brings low-to-medium PC's and laptops to their knees. It's much worse than most of the competition among equivalent MMO's. Even at the lowest detail settings - which are not turned on by default, even when you install on a PC that needs them - Ryzom chews serious CPU just sitting there. (It chews CPU at the login window.) The choice between OpenGL and Direct3D is not obvious to new (or many experienced) players, and the default "Automatic" choice (the game doesn't tell you which one it picks) may not be right.

The reason this matters is that sluggish gameplay exerts a constant, irritating psychological effect - one that colors the entire playing experience, no matter how brilliant the game design is or how otherwise rewarding a player's session might be. Eventually people just get fed up with it and don't log in.

The new owners need to take a "tiger-team" approach to lightening the client's impact on the PC, either by tweaking the engines or making some other choices. Perhaps there are some bugs to fix. Most importantly, the CEO of the game needs to walk into a middle class shopping center, buy an ordinary PC, take it home or to work, install Ryzom on it and use THAT as the benchmark. Not some lead developer's badass Opteron showpiece. Nobody should have to quit this game because it runs slower than other MMOs.

2. The community is fragmented by language. This isn't a problem for That Huge Competing MMO, because 8 million splits three or four ways very nicely. But for an at-best-modest sized MMO like Ryzom (Nevrax wouldn't give numbers, seldom a good sign) to divide its users into separate French, German and English language zones (server, forum, CSR etc) makes it feel like you're playing an oversized hobby MUD at times. You want to find something out about the game, it turns out the only guy who knows is over in the French zone somewhere. Major guilds have 2 or 1 or zero people online. You have much of the game to yourself, much of the time.

Ironically, Acridiel sets a great counterexample of cross-language-community support by coming here and posting his Open Letter. But this is more the exception than the rule.

By contrast, look at CCP. Until they launched their Asian shard, the rule for their trans-Atlantic, multilingual playerbase was, One live server for all, one official language (English) for commerce and support. Maybe that's harder to get away with in France than in Iceland. But it's worked for CCP. Nobody should have to quit this game because they feel almost alone.

3. Documentation is scattered and incomplete. And just to pre-empt, no excuses please about how you should "ask other players." There is nothing intrinsically mysterious about the mechanics of this game. The only feature that's uniquely creative and non-intuitive (that I can see) is the elegant Stanza/Credit system for Actions, which is just arithmetic once you wrap your head around the basic idea. In theory, Ryzom should be as lavishly and accurately documented as any other MMO. In practice, there was a lot of stuff written during Beta and the first couple of months of release, and relatively little since (even though some things have changed). There are things scattered around the Forums in three languages. There are some external sites still alive among the dead links. But not as much real info as you'd think.

Of course if you start on Silan and you take the "instructional" quests, you will see some popup windows containing the kind of explanatory text new players need. Somebody obviously spent a lot of time on them. But the moment you close them, that text is gone for good. You can't pull it back up in your Journal. You can't ask the NPC to repeat it. And it's not matched or even hinted at in the in-game Help system.

There is even a certain notion implied, from some players and perhaps hinted at in the official lore, that this obfuscation is somehow "good for" or part of the game experience. I think that's bunk. No truly elegant game needs its mechanics obscured. And I have played games where the actual mechanics were so crappy that people didn't discuss them in order to avoid depressing themselves. Ryzom's mechanics seem awesome to me.

New players should have every opportunity to learn as much or as little about how Ryzom works as they choose, on their own time. All of that instructional text should be readable online and in your Journal. Devs and players together should redouble efforts to create Ryzom 101 guides that lay out the basics in plain English (at least). Nobody should have to quit this game because they don't understand it.

4. The Grind. Don't bother arguing with me about this one - read what people say about Ryzom in other forums. Talk to the people who have quit to other games. Ask them what they finally didn't like. You can do the initial Silan quests, you can smell the flowers and chat with friends all you like, but sooner or later, you're going to have to grind. Those high level buddies you made in the wonderful Ryzom community, the ones that want you to go adventuring with them - know how they got those high levels? Want to join them? Start grinding. Otherwise you're going to be a casual-playing n00b for two years while your buddies go have fun with that funny little Tryker next to you who did grind.

This is a standard complaint with non-narrative sandbox games. The only workarounds are to introduce narrative/quest elements (without requiring them) or to endlessly diversify the universe of possible targets and zones to level in, which adds to the Pig problem above. But some solution should be attempted, because nobody should have to quit this game rather than look another Yubo in the face.

5. The Uncertainty. Our shining hope now is that the Gameforge era will render this problem moot, but if you're cataloging new player turnoffs in Q406, this is near the top of the heap. People have been unsure for months whether there would be a game to play next week. Nobody wants to create an account and llavish significant amounts of character building time and energy on a title that might cease operations, or turn into something unrecognizable. I heard about Ryzom through the Free Ryzom Campaign, and when I tried the game I saw it was too sweet to pass up if only for a few months. But others are understandably more reluctant.

And then there's the issue of whether Gameforge is keeping Jolt around. Many of the relationships players have developed and enjoy with "the staff" at Ryzom are actually with Jolt employees.

As I say, hopefully this has become a non-issue, but nobody should have to quit rather than risk investing in a vanishing game.

I hope this slightly different "new player perspective" is somewhat helpful. My thanks again to Acridiel for reaching out in the first place, and I hope this rebuttal is received in good spirits.
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tr808
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by tr808 »

1. The client is a pig. It's not the 1.7GB download size, which is middle of the pack for modern MMO's, although you could argue that a small game like Ryzom, hungry for new customers, might want a smaller trial size. Nor is it the 7GB unpacked footprint. Ryzom is a pig because the running game client brings low-to-medium PC's and laptops to their knees. It's much worse than most of the competition among equivalent MMO's. Even at the lowest detail settings - which are not turned on by default, even when you install on a PC that needs them - Ryzom chews serious CPU just sitting there. (It chews CPU at the login window.) The choice between OpenGL and Direct3D is not obvious to new (or many experienced) players, and the default "Automatic" choice (the game doesn't tell you which one it picks) may not be right.

U tryed to download vangaurd? The ryzom recruiments and downloads are nothing compared to that, i have a very modest computer (amd athlon 1ghz 512ram and 128mb video and the game plays smooth, u should look for background processes imho



2. The community is fragmented by language. This isn't a problem for That Huge Competing MMO, because 8 million splits three or four ways very nicely. But for an at-best-modest sized MMO like Ryzom (Nevrax wouldn't give numbers, seldom a good sign) to divide its users into separate French, German and English language zones (server, forum, CSR etc) makes it feel like you're playing an oversized hobby MUD at times. You want to find something out about the game, it turns out the only guy who knows is over in the French zone somewhere. Major guilds have 2 or 1 or zero people online. You have much of the game to yourself, much of the time.

i really see no problem in this, i play Cho, probally the emptiest server and there is always some1 else in Universe chat to help out those new playeres, whatever time i play, in my guild, not even the biggest on Cho, there are always people on, roughly i would say around 5 to 10





3. Documentation is scattered and incomplete. And just to pre-empt, no excuses please about how you should "ask other players." There is nothing intrinsically mysterious about the mechanics of this game. The only feature that's uniquely creative and non-intuitive (that I can see) is the elegant Stanza/Credit system for Actions, which is just arithmetic once you wrap your head around the basic idea. In theory, Ryzom should be as lavishly and accurately documented as any other MMO. In practice, there was a lot of stuff written during Beta and the first couple of months of release, and relatively little since (even though some things have changed). There are things scattered around the Forums in three languages. There are some external sites still alive among the dead links. But not as much real info as you'd think.

again i dont agree with u, when i started there was no problem in finding information that i needed

Of course if you start on Silan and you take the "instructional" quests, you will see some popup windows containing the kind of explanatory text new players need. Somebody obviously spent a lot of time on them. But the moment you close them, that text is gone for good. You can't pull it back up in your Journal. You can't ask the NPC to repeat it. And it's not matched or even hinted at in the in-game Help system.

imho, i dont see this as a problem, it makes me interact with newer players on what to do, where to hunt, show them the spots... i.e. a friendship is born.

There is even a certain notion implied, from some players and perhaps hinted at in the official lore, that this obfuscation is somehow "good for" or part of the game experience. I think that's bunk. No truly elegant game needs its mechanics obscured. And I have played games where the actual mechanics were so crappy that people didn't discuss them in order to avoid depressing themselves. Ryzom's mechanics seem awesome to me.

New players should have every opportunity to learn as much or as little about how Ryzom works as they choose, on their own time. All of that instructional text should be readable online and in your Journal. Devs and players together should redouble efforts to create Ryzom 101 guides that lay out the basics in plain English (at least). Nobody should have to quit this game because they don't understand it.

again, as new player i had no problem finding out on mechanics or gameplay

4. The Grind. Don't bother arguing with me about this one - read what people say about Ryzom in other forums. Talk to the people who have quit to other games. Ask them what they finally didn't like. You can do the initial Silan quests, you can smell the flowers and chat with friends all you like, but sooner or later, you're going to have to grind. Those high level buddies you made in the wonderful Ryzom community, the ones that want you to go adventuring with them - know how they got those high levels? Want to join them? Start grinding. Otherwise you're going to be a casual-playing n00b for two years while your buddies go have fun with that funny little Tryker next to you who did grind.


Every MMORPG i played had this grind, i dont see ur point.


5. The Uncertainty. Our shining hope now is that the Gameforge era will render this problem moot, but if you're cataloging new player turnoffs in Q406, this is near the top of the heap. People have been unsure for months whether there would be a game to play next week. Nobody wants to create an account and llavish significant amounts of character building time and energy on a title that might cease operations, or turn into something unrecognizable. I heard about Ryzom through the Free Ryzom Campaign, and when I tried the game I saw it was too sweet to pass up if only for a few months. But others are understandably more reluctant.

for me it was clear there was another party interested, look my joindate, right b4 they closed subs, im still here as the other newcomers i met on my server, all still there, marjo even made a statement everythign would be cleared up in januari and it did.


I hope this slightly different "new player perspective" is somewhat helpful. My thanks again to Acridiel for reaching out in the first place, and I hope this rebuttal is received in good spirits.[/QUOTE]

I hope my new player perspective also is somewhat helpful :)
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by grimjim »

Regarding Acridiel's points and then yours...


1. Ryzom´s a Sandbox-Kind-of-Game.
I'm used to different terminology coming from a tabletop design perspective so I'll try to set my terms.

Ryzom is a sandbox, or was a sandbox, perhaps it still is, because there was no real set agenda, you lived in the world, made the world your own. We (well some of us) would call this a 'Simulationist' perspective.

What you call 'Narrative' is not what I would call a 'Narrative' game. In Tabletop games a 'Narrativist' stance is one of cooperation to create a story between the participants whereas, all too often in MMOs, and I get the impression that is is what you mean here, the narrative is someone elses and is played out through railroad quests (WoW being perhaps the best example).

'The Saga' has been dropped from Ryzom but when analysing how the game has played out previously I think its important to recognise that it IS a sandbox game, but that it does have narrative elements - which are put forward on 'ruts' rather than 'tracks' through live events. We have gotten some influence and input over how things have gone, just not as much as we were necessarily sold on.

EVE is much more towards the simulation end and Second Life is what some people would call a 'toy' rather than a game.

I always liken Ryzom to a lego kit. It comes to make one specific cool thing, but you can use the pieces to make other things. EVE is more like Technics lego and Second Life is a sack of building blocks :)

When you consider R2 as well (It REALLY needs a hosting solution guys!) Ryzom goes ahead of EVE at least int he Sandbox stakes.

The dilemma here, and some of the solutions, have been the same problems as with SWG, 'dumbing down' and going after the WoW demographic, which really hasn't gone too well all told.

Are people quitting because its a sandbox? No, I don't think so, it doesn't retain some people because Silan creates a wrongful impression in some of a quest-led game and some people are piss-poor at thinking for themselves what to do, but overall the sandbox nature is an essential part of what makes Ryzom, Ryzom.

2. Ryzom´s got Invasion.
Yeah, the RAID engine is AWOL it seems, but we've had a couple of invasion type events in The Ring so the engine can still handle it. These seem to have taken a back seat as the PvP element has been cranked up, to the detriment of the game IMO.

Is this unique? In the scale and scope, yes, pretty much. Its not normally just new spawns (like the last Kitin thing was) invasions are a bit different.

Are people quitting because of invasions? The lack thereof perhaps.

3. Ryzom is Teamplay.
I'd say this is still accurate, though crystals have lessened it a bit. This ties in with the whole soloing thing. You do still get the most out of the game if you guild up, team up and work together.

Do people quit over this? Soloers, but they don't have friends, so it's a minimal loss ;) (joke...)

4. Ryzom´s got community.
One of the stand-out qualities of Ryzom always has been the community. Even now with the nature of the game shifting and a lot of the great old spirit severely diminished it still has the best community of the games out there. Of course, people mean different things when they say community. If someone says WoW has a great community - they mean sheer numbers, not quality.

Do people quit over the community? Many of the older players that remain do grumble that the community isn't what it once was. I don't think my analysis of why that is should come as a surprise to anyone so I won't repeat it, but apparently it surprised Nevrax despite more than a few people predicting it.

More mid and short term players Ryzom still has a gleam of loveliness to its community, they don't see the lines and wrinkles because they didn't know her as a 'blushing young bride.'

5. Ryzom isn´t E-Sport!
Grinding didn't used to be so emphasised. The introduction of PvP has lead many to crystal-grind in an attempt to be 'useful'. This pressure to rush to 'endgame' didn't exist before, so that's changed the character and nature of the game and community significantly.

Live events and player events were much more common before as well, it seems even the guide-run events don't get a ton of attendence these days either because so many people are focussed on the battles and the greater part of the event/RP community has either a) buggered off or b) goes to the battles because they have obligations to friends and guilds. Case in point being Senator Dios' conference in Pyr recently.

Do people quit over the grind? Yes, those who can't handle sandboxing and think that's all there is to do and I can imagine it would seem frustrating to those who want to zoom up and PvP. Again, that's back to that pressure that wasn't there before, so that's changed.

6. Ryzom´s got no real "Endgame"
This isn't so true any longer. It used to be the case that really, things didn't change. Plus the multiskill nature of Ryzom meant you could switch skills and carry on as you had been.

Now however, we have 'Outposts and Alliances' for people to 'endgame' with, but it's weak sauce.

Is this causing people to quit?

The lack of an endgame didn't drive people away IMO, apart from a few who were too 'goal oriented' to get it. The introduction of an 'Endgame' certainly has driven a few off.

7. Ryzom´s got no Instances.
Nope. Huzzah!
Doesn't seem to have too much influence either way, though some uninformed 'Noobos' bemoan the lack of 'phat loot'.

8. Ryzom´s got a Staff that cares!
This is the other main pillar of what makes Ryzom work IMO. This and community, and with community wearing down a bit this takes up more of the slack. Those two things seem to retain players more than anything else. So I imagine a few are nervous about what GF will do.

9. Ryzom´s hard to solo.
It is. Depending on the skill. Crystals have taken some of the sting out, but this does push a few people off. Not something that can be changed without negatively impacting the game IMO.

10. Ryzom has gut no real "Quests".
Silan creates a false impression. As others have said there aren't quests, there are tasks and they're largely meaningless. There are encyclopaedia quests but these are few and far betwee. Ryzom instead advances through live events, or did, but there seems to be less interest in the remaining/new playerbase in these elements, which is a damn shame.

Does this drive people away? Yes.
Is the solution more cookie-cutter quests?
No.
You'd lose your 'Ryzomness' then.


11. Ryzom´s got no Classes.
This ties in with the sandboxing, some people can't handle it.

On to your list...

1. The client is a pig.

The size isn't too bad and it is playable on weaker systems, it's just scalable so it won't look AS shiny. People's machines are getting better all the time and Ryzom's graphics and things hold up nicely to the newer games with lesser demands. It's just a bit clunky.

2. The community is fragmented by language.
I think you're sort of missing the point here a little. Apart from the oriental games most big releases are in english and on english servers. I'm sure there was an element of French national pride and European solidarity in the decision on linguistic servers, it certainly hasn't done the French server any harm, I'm sure it makes support easier too.

There's also a matter of different gaming cultures, even between countries that share the same language, and mixing them all up isn't necessarily a good thing.

Nobody in this game should feel 'alone'. The problem on the English servers is the spread of timezones things people out a lot, the problem on Cho is that it is new. Also it doesn't feel, to me, that the game is particularly designed to be uber-crowded.

Even so, there's no reason to feel alone.

3. Documentation is scattered and incomplete.
Here I agree. Updated manuals and player guides are a good idea, though there have been some things like the comic book guides.

4. The Grind.
See above.
In the past it was because people are used to having nice little quest pointers and couldn't break out of the mindset and couldn't think for themselves.
Now there's the 'endgame' to worry about so there is pressure to grind.

My solution would be to rip the sting out of the PvP endgame and engage people in the day to day life of atys with better, repeatable tasks and better involvement in the politics and story again but I'm not in charge and that no longer seems to be what people want.

5. The Uncertainty.
Agreed.
GF still might be finding their feet but SOME sort of indication of where they're going would be nice. Some promises, some word on whether the old things in development are still coming (Ring hosting, Spires - yuck - and the Kitin nest) for example.
Will Jena ever get here? Is Tryton alive or dead?
While we weren't sure of the future we played FIERCELY because we didn't want the game to go, but now with this limbo and no sense of direction people are drifting away or arguing strongly for the things that they want to see come into the game. GF's stable of games and relative lack of MMO experience makes people wary too.
We need some kind of indication or promise, just to know if we should stay or go.

As for us, its been a depressing couple of weeks with people extremely demotivated and/or leaving because really, we need hope. The Outpost situation continues to spiral downhill with nobody on the dev side apparently caring, neutrals (you knew I had to mention it eventually) getting pissed on constantly, what's the direction? Where are we going? Are we going to get any element of the old Ryzom back ever if we hang on long enough? Do GF care about the saga or what?

We just don't know and that starts to make LOTR (No PvP) or AoC (PvE server + boobs = win) start to look appealing.
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by darkcred »

I am sorry, but i agree with the OP, I am a new player and after enjoyiong the game for about 2 months, and exploring all the options one thing came right down to it.....I had to grind, and a vieled and hidden grind is FAR better than a blatent and painful grind, I am sorry to those 2 who disagreed with the OP, but I have to completely disagree with you, this game down not need to be ALL quest like WoW, but I would like the option to be there for those that enjoy it......not make it a nececity, but an option. No game was ever made worse by adding options, they are made worse by making those options a nececity.
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nevarion
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by nevarion »

The beauty of diversity. What appeals to one person might not to the other and that's just what makes life so interesting.

Comparing is a human trait but it fails when you try to compare and envision a idea of contrary designs. The things pointed out are no less than valid from ones personal point of view but yet I dare to say many of these points are the strengths of SoR. Not some shortcoming.
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vguerin
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by vguerin »

karquile wrote:I hope this slightly different "new player perspective" is somewhat helpful. My thanks again to Acridiel for reaching out in the first place, and I hope this rebuttal is received in good spirits.
Your assessment is pretty spot on, though different style gameplays may have some different slants.
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beaut666
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by beaut666 »

I actually agree with most of his points...there is quite a bit that could be fixed, added to, fixed..I'm new as well but am enjoying the hell out of it, but have learned that I can't go into a playing session with a certain mindset like in other MMO's.
In other words, I log in, and just kind of see what happens. I might level, I might go try to craft, heck I a made another character and am slowly but surely trekking them all the way across the land, as an experiment.
This game has a lot more to offer than it currently does, for sure. It is a KILLER game, my fav, but I have had to adjust my gameplay style to enjoy it.
I mostly agree with him on the point of how the client runs. The size doesn't bother me, most MMO's are pretty large nowadays, but it does run a lil clunky.
I am used to it, but I think when u turn it all the way up, and it looks sooo pretty, then u have to turn it down a notch or two, it makes u feel a lil ...I dont know, I'm sure this needs no explaining.
I run the game on high except the landscape. Thats what kills my FPS the most, the landscape. I get between 10-25 FPS, depending on in-town or not. The engine needs some tweaking, BAD.
Just as comparison, though, I went a few years ago and spent about 800 bux on a PC for my wife. When we got it, it was really cool...a nice one. Now, if I spent the same amount of money, I could get a KILLER machine, dual-core with a gig of ram and a nice graphics card. PC's just get cheaper and cheaper. So, a new one now could run Ryzom just fine cranked up. The machine I run it on is about 2 years old, and handles it on high, with some lag in town.
Hmm..this is a good discussion. Acridiel is a smart guy (and knows his Ryzom for sure..) and has so many good points, but this new post has some good counterpoints.
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by mithur »

Quickly, my thoughs:

The client goes Ok in most computers today. Three years ago, when it lauchs, it had to be a paint for the old computers from that moment. But until some weeks I had a 4 years old computer, and Ryzom goes fine. Some tweaking, that's true. A better auto-configurator could be great, but that's hard for all games.

The documentation is a hell. Understand the mechanics is a hell. Start the game is a hell. Today I've been explaining to a silan newbie the most basics mechanics. In the other hand, I like discover new details after 6 months playing. That never has happened.

The empty servers? Nopes. First, Cho has part of the blame. I never understand the opening of cho, or only understand in part. In a first time you think that a MMO so huge could be hard of playing with few people. But now i know that it rocks even with only 12-20 people in the same region.

Grinding? Yeah, a damn lot. True. If you hate it, this is not your game. But, from all the grindings, this is the best I've ever see. At the first I didn't see the point of harvest. Now I love to do it. I don't know why, but I really like it. Curious.

About the uncertanity, nothing could be done with that. If GF goes fine, perfect. If not, then nothing we could do. I like this game and well, if I can play until it closes, I'll do. Easy as that. But sure, that's a point that only GF and the time could solve.
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by karquile »

Just a quick followup -

I really appreciate the other perspectives posted above. Definitely this is not intended to be a "Ryzom flame thread" or anything like that. Personally I love the game and have had pretty good success getting it to run in various hardware environments, and pretty good success sleuthing out game info from various places. But that's what I'm good at. Other new players who happen to be good at other things besides tweaking and sleuthing, might get discouraged. I'm just sort of addressing the question of keeping them, as well as me.

There is definitely something wrong with the client, though. If you run it on a two CPU system and fire up the performance monitor, you can see it eating up 100% of one CPU, even just sitting there waiting for you to log in or choose a character. It's probably the libraries it uses, but the effect is the same.

I have tried two different systems - on desktop, one laptop - that matched the minimum system requirements (as opposed to the recommended system). In neither case would I dare use it in serious risk or combat situations. That's true even after tweaking everything to minimum, which is not done by default even when you install on a minimum-level system. It takes 5-7 minutes to even load into Atys, and then it's good for chat and checking levels, and that's about it.

I also run Ryzom on some high end systems where it looks absolutely insanely gorgeous. But if I run it maxed out on OpenGL, it runs the GPU so hot my PC shuts down. I ended up switching back to Direct3D for safety's sake. Liquid nitrogen is so expensive these days. :)

The other thing I want to mention is that if you're lucky enough to land in a large, active Guild alongside veterans and other newcomers, most of the "newcomer problems" on my list go away. They will help you even while soloing, and the teamplay will make even the grind more fun. Frankly that's my advice to any Ryzom newcomer even if they normally are of the "I hate guilds" persuasion: grit your teeth and join one anyway. It will get you through. You can always solo the endgame later.
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Re: An Open Reply To Acridiel's New Player Letter

Post by aardnebb »

karquile wrote:I also run Ryzom on some high end systems where it looks absolutely insanely gorgeous. But if I run it maxed out on OpenGL, it runs the GPU so hot my PC shuts down. I ended up switching back to Direct3D for safety's sake. Liquid nitrogen is so expensive these days. :)
If you can overheat your system running it full out, you need to consider improving your cooling situation (or turning down your overclocking... after all, if Ryzom does this, 3D Mark will do it, and whats the point of a pimped out machine if you cant compare 3D Mark scores?). I run the game on near-max (I have microveg and bloom turned off), on a 2 monitor rig at very high resolution. But thats on a high-end machine with proper cooling.

On the other end of the scale a basic Dell cheap+cheerful will run Ryzom quite nicely at reasonable settings these days as long as you pick one without an "integrated graphics accelerator" or any rubbish like that, and with the "double RAM free" (so you get a gb). Can be done for under £500.
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