Comparison of Melee Fighters and Elementalists

[eldaraal]

I've recently been doing a comparison of melee fighters and elementalists (since these seem to be the most popular branches of their respective skills) - have a read and tell me your thoughts. These are based on level 50 characters, but the same holds true at level 25 - if any higher level characters want to chip in how things change with level, I'd appreciate it.

So situtaion is two level 50 characters are fighting the same mob, both with good quality equipement (the fighter has a high damage 2 handed sword, the mage a magic staff with 97% bonus to elemental speed and power). The mage has approximately half the hit points of the fighter, and using light armour (to keep sap and casting time penalties down) has about 1/8 of the armour protection - so the fighter should be able to last about 16 times as long when 'up close and personal' with the enemy.

When attacking, the mage uses a spell (cold 5 in this example) which the target is vulnerable to, resulting in damage of roughly 250 straight to hit points. The fighter hits using increase damage with a median value (after armour reduction) of 260. With no casting speed penalties in the spell, the mage can churning out hits at about the same rate as the fighter hits with his two handed sword. With full sap and stam for his level the mage can churn out about 5 of these spells, while the fighter can get more than 10 increased damage attacks before his stamina runs out. Once sap/stam has gone, the mage is pretty much useless, either standing around to regen sap, or casting low level spells with sap costs matching his recharge rate, for about 1/10th the above damage. When the fighters stam runs out, he swicthes to default attacks and does 1/2th the above damage, while still regenrating stamina for more increased damage attacks in the future.

Overal, the only advantage I can see the mage as having are (short) ranged attacks. This lets you get in at most two additional attacks before the target reaches you and can attack back.

I've checked this with a few different characters and it all seems to be correct - but am I missing something? Do mages get exponentially more powerful at higher levels (I had thought this at level 25 when the same stats emerged, but it's looking a little less likely now)?

With these stats I am concerned that fighters will start to refuse to group with offensive mages, as they can't pull their own weight in a fight - I have already seen this happening over the last few weeks in fyros lands - and anyone who wants to be a mage will be forced down the healer route (affliction spells are useful when grouped with others, but offer poor experience whenever I have used them).

I, for one, intend to attempt to continue down the elementalist route, but if grouping oppurtunities dry up (and lets be honest, there aren't that many at the moment, at least in Fyros) then it's going to start to get difficult.

Way back in the first open beta there was an imbalance problem with mages and fighters - it was much easier to be a mage. At the time a great many suggestions were made on how to rebalance things effectively - almost any one of which would have worked nicely - but what seems to have happened is that *most* of them have been applied: mage damage reduced, fighter damage increased, armour effectiveness increased, healing reduced, magic costs increased (although this might be fixed in the upcoming patch). In most other games, mages can attack for a similar level of damage to fighters, with a few big nukes for sticky situations - here we have a few big nukes which do as much damage as fighters and nothing as backup except to bludgeon our opponents with our staves...

So, Devs, please lets see a bit of rebalancing sooner rather than later. I'm sure you can think of something, but for suggestions:
1) Cut the sap cost of spells so we can do fighter-equivalent damage for more than 5 hits.
OR
2) Double spell damage - we only get a few hits but they are good ones.
OR
3) Half melee damage - same reason as above.
OR
4) Increase mage staff bonues, while reducing high quality weapon bonuses - this way if we shop around to get a better staff, we might actually be able to do more damage than a fighter, even if we can't with an average staff.

[spelk]

Your comparisons are purely on a solo basis. I don't think a mage should ever be able to withstand the same sort of punishment as a fighter could, nor dish out the same sort of punishment as a fighter could up close and personal.

If you balance the classes to the solo experience, it negates any need for any grouping at all. Some would prefer it that way.

A well balanced group with fighters, nukers and healers, should be able to chew through mobs much more efficiently. And this is where a good mage wants to be IMHO. Speaking personally, I wouldn't shun a group with an offensive mage because I didn't think he was pulling his weight in the damage department. If I can hold the mob at the front and he can throw in additional damage from behind and we're both safe, then I see that as a fairly positive multiplayer grouping situation. Obviously healers might be more needed because they give the group the option to revive fallen tanks if there becomes a problem, but at the end of the day, any mage in a group is better than no mage at all.

Your comparison also only takes into account purist mages, and I think with the skill system in place in Ryzom you will see many more hybrid mages with a mix of powers, even melee abililties. From what I can tell, mages and fighters seem to be balanced as it is. I don't see the need for more checks based on such a limited comparison view.

[goken]

Well hunting solo , shoudl you really be huntign mobs that take all your stamina and/or sap? The answer in NO, Going solo you shoudl hunt easier mobs been able to keep up hunting for a fair bit of time with little rests. Mages are more rewarding in Power and the Visual Aspect but more risk if mobs resist your spells a couple of time as a mage your pretty much dead, But hunting the right stuff at level 50 i'd say the Mages get the advantage of leveling speed solo.

But if your mainl after elvelign speed id sugest teaming with 2-3 and hunt the right mob, Max exp and easier and faster than solo.

[lazarus]

The other point I'd add here is that no mention is made of stun/root/fear. Talk to almost any mage who solo's regularly (in fact, who fights alone or in a group) and they'll tell you to use one or more of these spells.

Many mages will tell you that if the mob reaches you, you're doing something wrong. I would say that if you're running out of sap, you're fighting something too big for you, or you need to rethink the credits on your actions.

[pcheez]

I am a mage ingame. I have soloed a lot, and never used fear,stun,etc...
A mage cant pull his weight in the damage department? Thats an amusing thought. A mage using lets say cold 5 as u mentioned, should have approx 700-800 sap. Hw should also have credit sap that consumes 50 or so sap.
If he sets the spell so that it consumes only sap, and he has a 50m range and no casting time penalty, he can fire off 15-18 blasts at 250 damage each(with staff).Then there is sap heal, lets say 400 sap, thats 9 more blasts.
Now typically one should be a ble to simk in approx 4-5 blasts if one attacks a mob from 50 m but that mob should be ded by then if u attack things ur level (baying goaris at lvl 50 mage).
Now a mage truly shines in group. Not only because he is the only thing keeping the meleers alive, but for the reknowned affliction spells like madness and stun .
Well thats my teqnique and it got me far
(ps : i know 400/50=8 but i consider the sap regen rate )

[mccoy3]

at higher levels u can do double missile spells. the advantage the mage got is u hit the mob with almost every blast whereas the fighter misses to hit higher level mobs alot. at level 100 u can do 600 damage with proper equipment on any mob no matter what level (if the mob doesnt resist to magic of course) for 7-8 blasts.
on the other hand i think this game has the most weak mages of all games, although the most versatile.

[maggers]

I have to agree with Pcheez .. I never use Root or Fear .. I solo a lot only because there doesnt seem to be a lot of group action going on. Kind of reminds me a little of FFXI except we can solo in this game and dont have to sit around for 5 hours waiting for a group.

Im the group situation Mages rock, Without Blind some mobs are just impossible to kill and we can switch from Blasting to Healing at a seconds notice.

I have to point out though that I do find it easier to level as a Melee but perhaps at higher levels everyone will be pushed into grouping as soloing wont be an option.

[enlil]

Another thing I've noticed as an elementalist is that fighters often miss, especially when fighting high level mobs. My spells rarely miss and I think my avg damage is often higher than the fighters as they often hit for less than max while I often hit for max.

Another thing that is fun is to duo with mages. One stun or fear, the other nuke. Alternate who nukes to maximise your leveling.

[endasil]

It seems to me, that it is very hard to solo as a mage and get good xp. While my fighter friend a few levels below me (lvl 50) can go on and kill several mobs and gain 3K xp each, i (lvl 55) have trouble taking mobs that gives me 1,5-2k xp. So in my opinion, mages are much weaker than melee fighters.

I am interested in beeing an offensive mage, not a healer mage forced to follow groups to survive.

It seems to me like the elemental power needs to be improved.

Melee and elemental mages can do the same damage, melee slightly more.
Mages have longer range than Melee but is totally worthless in close combat.

[pcheez]

endasil, when u hit lvl 101 off mage, u will change ur opinion.
Do u know of any meleer who can deal 800 dmg / blast from 50 m away at a rate of 3 secs/ cast which means approx 4 blasts if we consider one is stupid enough not to use an affliction missile blueprint, thus dealing an average 3200
damage in a few seconds b4 the mob even gets to him ?
didnt think so