Tribal Fame Bug

[phradok]

This is what I have been able to deduce happened to tribe fame after the "fame" patch.

If a character's personal fame with a tribe had been modified, either positively or negatively, the old personal fame was used as the new fame with the tribe.

If a character's personal fame with a tribe had not been modified, either positively or negatively, the old civilization fame was used as the new fame with the tribe. And any new modifications of the new fame modify from this number.

What this means in many cases is tribes that were not kill on sight for some players now are, and tribes that were kill on sight before patch are not (if the player had any personal fame with them). This sets up the crazy scenario where there can be a swing of over 100 points in the new personal fame with a tribe, based on a difference between players in the performance of only one mission. In fact, this sets up the inane situation where most people would have been better off killing tribes and gaining negative fame before the patch, because this usually results in only a mild negative fame which is not within the kill on sight range under the new fame system. In one case I had accumulated a negative personal fame with a tribe and they became kill on sight for me before the patch, but now they are not, because my personal fame with them is only -7. If I had done nothing to modify my personal fame before the patch, they would now be kill on sight for me (because the old civilization fame was less than -50).

To me the way the tribe fame has been implemented is completely unfair and does not follow the patch notes. Civilization fame was not supposed to influence overall personal fame, but it now does in cases where no fame modification occurred before the patch. In addition, wild differences in new personal fame with tribes occur between players just depending on whether the player performed even one mission for the tribe.

I have reported this bug multiple times (for different tribes). In some cases I have gotten the response that Nevrax is working on it, in others I have been told it is working as intended. If the latter, I seriously question Nevrax's intentions in this completely capricious implementation of tribe fame.

What should have happened, in my opinion, is that in cases where a player had no interaction with a tribe before the patch, the new personal fame should have been set to 0, rather than to the old civilization fame.

Please fix this problem, Nevrax, because having access to hawkers in tribe camps is now even more important for diggers, who now have much more restricted travel access.

[blaah]

.. just to add

why should tribe fames be hidden ?
it's _not_ fun to run tribe camp (previously friendly, located in your home land) and find out that they will nuke you.

Just make is so that when you have made "first contact" (not mission, just aggrod/entered their camp), it will be listed in "tribe fame" list from that moment on (cant make mission to them to find out fame)

[katriell]

Yeah, aside from making no OOC sense, it's incongruous IC: tribes are more friendly to characters who've killed them before than characters who've never interacted with them at all.

re: blaah
I was trying to get Tutors back onto my list yesterday and got a nice dp when I entered their camp. >.< It's very discommodious that we can't see civilization fame, which though it doesn't technically exist, still has an effect.

[vguerin]

I agree with this in spirit... doesn't make sense. But those of us that interacted with all tribes and fame we already at similar global changes. The only difference as you stated above were the borderline tribes that weren't extremists... we kept the meager gains with them that we were able to make. The extremists were KoS either way IMHO if you followed faction lines...

[tylarth]

the initial finding are not what i have experienced, tribes with which you had a personal fame with carried over to the new system, with the max fame cap being determined by whatever affliations with race and cult you have. the tribe i had entries for from guild i did not interact with, as the guild fame add is gone so is the contact and knowledge, also the old race value is gone replaced by a more accurate cult and race affiliation.

Tribes i have no fame with still have the cap of your affiliations so can be aggro, even if previously they were not due to guild + race modifiers not being the same as new cult + race caps.

Tribes pretty much follow the standard race model as before too so as a matis/kara the woven bridles (fyros/kami) still dislike me but the arid matis (matis/kara) like me as do the oasis diggers (fyros/kara) this is pretty much as they were before just with the potential (the cap) rather than the race modifier. neutral/neutral is 50% cap for all tribes part neutral/part affiliated has wider effects depending on the tribes opinion of the race or cult, so a neutral/kara is gonna get disliked more potentiallyby a kami tribe, than with a race afiliation too (only briefly poked about with that on ATS).

[petej]

http://www.ballisticmystix.com/posts/list/243.page

Yup ive been doing some checking on fames too with my various Alts and im finding it just as phradok says Tribes activated prior to the patch only use Personal Fame where as Tribes activated after start at the old Civ Fame lvl , cant comment on if/how Faction alters the situation as ive not managed to check that yet

Neutral/Neutral is abit weird and seems buggy as when you activate a new tribe into your list it will at first have the Race cap instead of the 50 cap

As usual they seem to have rushed it in with very little testing -surely they wouldve noticed these probs if theyd done even minor tests :/

[petej]

Oh and another gripe... why have a Cap (-50) that makes you just KoS at the highest lvl (may as well be capped at -100) , wouldve been much better imo if it was set to -49 , then if you worked hard at it you could just get out of being KoS. I know theyve said -

. The server rounds fame figure with tribes as a result, at a certain fame number (-50), depending on the rounding, you are either KoS with a tribe or not. We thought you'd like to know that. Best to be -51, at least you are clearly KoS.

lol but whats that about ?

[norvic]

Dont see Cuzans on your list Pet, last time I looked all my personal fame had dissappeared with them aswell although not checked since the patch.
Anyone else know if thier personal Cuzan fame has dissapeared and if so why?

[thlau]

Corrections additions:

All Values are Tryker/Neutral

Chlorogoos 50 [-66]
Kitin Gatherers 50
Night Turners 50
Recoverers 50
Smugglers 50

[petej]

Dont see Cuzans on your list Pet, last time I looked all my personal fame had dissappeared with them aswell although not checked since the patch.
Anyone else know if thier personal Cuzan fame has dissapeared and if so why?

They show as Cutes now