Auction problems

[kibsword]

Ok I had a bad experience with my first proper auction and I want to make sure it doesnt happen to anyone else. I am not the sort of person to take enemies with any of the parties, and I mean no disrespect to any of them by posting the story as I got it here. I shall offer the item in question to the 3rd highest bidder if they want it. My aim here is to get some community agreement on future auction rules to make sure this doesnt happen to others as it did to me.

Ok heres the story:

We're rebuilding the guild and need some money to start afresh. I looked around my appartment for some things to auction and I found a max hp q200 invasion dagger. So I decided to auction it for a week on these forums.

I posted it here with the auction to end sat the 3rd at 6pm BST (today). Anissa and Audrey started the bidding, Annisa stopped at 45mil after Audrey outbid her at 50mil.

Yoshi then came in to outbid Audrey and the bidding continued until Yoshi made her last bid at 110mil, outbid by Audrey at 115mil. Apparently Yoshi never wanted the dagger but Yoshi and Audrey dont get along so Yoshi wanted Audrey to pay more for the dagger.

This was an enourmous amount of money for the guild, and early in the auction too. The guild was very happy and looking forward to the money we hoped to be getting.

So the auction finished tonight and I logged in to speak to Audrey about the dagger. Audrey pointed me to a message in my ig e-mail inbox from 11pm last night saying that there were some problems paying. Basically she was apparently bidding on Fasinus's behalf, who couldnt use the forums for some reason. However, they since had a falling out (guild problems I think it was) and Audrey couldnt pay anymore. Audrey says she doesnt have the money and is only lvl 60 in close combat.

So I went to Yoshi. Yoshi said she wouldn't pay because Audrey won the auction and thus, should pay.

This meant that I would have to resort to the 3rd bidder, 70mil lower than the winning bid, but still a lot of money for the guild.

However I decided to ask Fasinus first. He acknowledged that Audrey was bidding on his behalf, but that he said 100mil max for the dagger. So I offered him the dagger for 100mil and he just said "lol no thanks".

Yoshi has said she would make up for it by offering to make some nice armour or weapons for me, and Audrey has offered her services with boss mats or jewels. Both were appreciated offers and I may take them up on it.

I am going to give up getting the money from the two highest bidders, I dont want to make any enemies and both sides have their reasons not to pay, although in reality they probably should. However, I cant force anything and as I said I prefer not to make any enemies.

However, this does leave a problem. How can we stop this from happening in future auctions?

I dont want to see people bidding for things they arnt or cant pay for. This can hurt the person auctioning the item, by making it a run around to get the item and introducing a element of corruption in ryzom auctions. For example someone could have come in and outbid the money that the dagger will now be sold for, however because of the two bidders who later pulled out, was unable to because of the inflated value.

So what can we do about this? Should the community pull together and make some sort of list of people who arnt allowed to vote on auctions because of things like this? I am not calling for any of the people involved in this incident to be banned, but I am just listing it as an option for the future.

Another option could be that the community as a whole pulls together and makes sure the winning bidder pays in some way. Even if they have to pay it off over time or loan money from someone.

Either way I think we need extra bidding rules to prevent this from occuring in the future. For example when the sniper rule was introduced to prevent last minute bidding.

Your thoughts please

-Kibsy

PS: 45-50mil was originally my higest estimate for what the dagger would sell for, but I was a little disappointed as you may imagine by the turn of events. The guild will still be very grateful for this money.

[archerke]

the answer is quite simple and i thought it to be a general knowledge: a bid is a bid and it cant be withdrawn whatsoever, no matter what happens. This improves the honesty of the bidding persons and vs the one selling the item.

basicly: u bid = u take credit for ur bid

[totnkopf]

I have to agree with what was said here.

Let us take a look at eBay and the way they treat their bidding. By bidding on an item, you enter into a contract to pay for the item up to the amount that you bid. The only way this can be withdrawn is for a good reason such as the item was described differently that what was being offered or the terms of the auction change. "Not having the money" or "I was bidding for someone else" are NOT acceptable.

I played Diablo II for a long time and did a lot of trading on the Blizzard forums. They obviously did not regulate the trading and no contracts or anythng. Instead, the community took it upon themselves to regulate it. People who did not pay when they won (or refused to trade, bait/swap, etc.) were essentially outcast from trading. Bids by them were ignored, any future auctions they started were filled with warnings from other forum members on their past actions, etc. This is essentially the way were should be running this forum. This is a player run bazaar so its up to the players to police it. If someone doesn't pay simply because they don't want to, then you can make it so they can't bid on your items (simply because you don't want them to). A good example of this is Sinfuls last rule to his auctions. If you've done him wrong, he'll ignore your bid.

As for Audrey bidding for someone else. She accepted the responsibility to bid for someone (someone who could just as easily bid himself). Yoshi made it quite obvious that he didn't truly want the dagger, but Audrey continued to bid. She could have stopped at any time, in which case Yoshi would have been stuck with the dagger. Yoshi essentially gambled with raising the price and this time she didn't get burned. It could just have easily backfired and casued him to pay for the dagger. As it stands though, Audrey continued to bid and, at the auctions end, was the winner. She took on the responsibility of bidding, so she should take on the responsibility of paying for it. Kibs was kind enough and took the time to set up an auction. The money should be paid to Kibs and Audrey should take on the responsibility of gettin the money from Fasinus. Audrey took on the responsibility and bid, so its up to her to complete the auction. She bid, she pays. If she later wants to go and attempt to get the money from Fasinus, thats fine, however, that was nothing to do with the auction itself. It was a side deal and shouldn't affect the auction.

So all in all, we should hold people responsible for their bids. Obviously we can't force them to pay or take an item, nor can we sue them for breach of contract. Instead, we can hold them responsible by the way we treat them in future auctions. Should we hold someone who weaseled their way out of a 115 million dap bid in the same light as someone who has always paid on time and with a smile? No, we shouldn't.

Ps. Also, an apology and an explanation go miles in cases like that discribed by Kibs. And while a weak explanation was given, an apology has yet to be forthcoming.

[rundll32]

Tbh non paying bidders such as audrey should be banned from bidding - its as simple as that, if they dont intend/have the means to pay then they should have the common sense not to bid. Bidding on someone elses behalf should not be done for what would appear to me OBVIOUS reasons.

If the person who wins the bidding refuses to pay they should be blacklisted for future auctions and the auction should be repeated- it should not fall to the person who was next in line as they were not the winner of the auction and therefore may have engaged in other transactions since the auction closed (justly) rendering them unable or unwilling to step forward as the winner.

It really is a simple system people, but how do you say, nothing is FOOL proof? There are plenty of idiots able to make a hash up of even the simplest procedures

[uhuhu]

Already says sorry to Kibs and explain my problem.. i know i am in fault, i agree, but i can't pay 115millions dappers for a daggers! Fasinus says: "bid 115mil, so Yoshi will bid more.. so i bid. I know, all is my fault... i am very sorry, can't pay you with dappers, but i'll do my best for help you with bosses mats or good stuff. Sincerly..

[rundll32]

Hmmm to atsyify an old adage - if fasinus told u to ride a flaming yubo through a herd of hungry zerx with youre god damn underwear on your head....would you do it? ....

A bit of common sense is all that is required. If you are bidding purely to increase the end price for someone else you can only do so if you do ACTUALLY HAVE the money to pay for it if you win u silly SILLY person...

[uhuhu]

Hmmm to atsyify an old adage - if fasinus told u to ride a flaming yubo through a herd of hungry zerx with youre god damn underwear on your head....would you do it? ....

A bit of common sense is all that is required. If you are bidding purely to increase the end price for someone else you can only do so if you do ACTUALLY HAVE the money to pay for it if you win u silly SILLY person...

it's not my money - Fasinus can't log on forum, so i bid for him. He got around 200mill dappers i think.. so.. he just says to bid for him (when he says it, we're in same guild) and 2 days ago, he leave me and hate me. So now, he doesn't want to pay for it anymore.. I don't have enought money for pay it, so i try to do my best for help Kibs with stuff or so..

[rundll32]

I think youve missed my point somewhat - nevermind

[kibsword]

yes I should point out that all parties did appologise and both Audrey and Yoshi offered armour/weapons/jewels etc as a way of trying to make up for it.

I should also point out that I'm not going to make anything of this and I'm not going to force anyone to pay me money. I already told fasinus that the offer will go to annisa for 45mil even if he offers more. I am a man of my word even if others arnt.

[sumoman]

[QUOTE=rundll32]Hmmm to atsyify an old adage - if fasinus told u to ride a flaming yubo through a herd of hungry zerx with youre god damn underwear on your head....would you do it? ....

/QUOTE]

If they could actually set a yubo alight and our the underwear on ur head then i would actually get the dp for it then lol, it would b fun just imagine the screen shots