Non-Crafter awareness.

[borg9]

After a conversation with a nameless potential customer, it dawned on me that some of the issues associated with 'the price of armours, etc' maybe down to a lack of knowledge on behalf of the purchaser.

Did you know that to make a full set of High Quality look, Heavy armour need the 216 (two hundred and sixteen materials to make) if all crafts are 100% successful. I have found that even when 10 levels above the ql required I still get the occasional degrade, which are pretty much worthless now, because the name degrades along with the QL!

So here is an example:

For the 'perfect' craft you need 216 materials, not just any materials you need them split into Wood/Resin/Oil/Sap. So basically you are looking at a stack and a bit of both wood and resin and a stack of both oil and sap.

Lets say the crafter plays it safe and has twice the amount need, just incase.

so we have:

199 wood (2 stacks)
199 resin (2 stacks)
149 Oil (1.5 stacks)
149 Oil (1.5 stacks)

total 7 stacks (696 materials) this allows 1 degrade per item, fails don't count as they only cost you time!

I have tended to charge, 400-800 'mob mats' for my armours and have often been told I am EXPENSIVE!

As I am paid in 'lvling junk' it mean I have to go and dig the materails or source them from another harvest (doing this wipes out most of the profit).

If I sell the results of the 'lvling junk' I get back a small amount of money, much less than if I sold the 'lvling junk' to the NPC.

If I am asked for a ql190 or ql180 item. I estimate a fail rate or around 3 item in 4 crafts, sometimes less, but usually more.

So if you say asked for a Black HQL 190 set!

I would need to source a MINIMUM of 404 Black mats (majority colour rule, unless you cut in all 8 colours and use fine and basic materials, which is just such an awful thought I wont even consider that it would be done!).

So when you ask for a set think about the above.

The customer when I told them this, I think fainted, as it took a good 10 mins before I got a reply of 'hummmm'.

So hopefully now you will all see that I am not trying to build my stocks of PR Mats, I am just being the 'fair and honest' crafter I have been since my first day on Atys.

Thank you for your time.

[borguk]

I can vouch for him

[archerke]

*nods*

yesterday i made my 1st ql 100 medium black armour wiii lol

i asked 300k and used the markets to get the stuff i needed. Resin is never on so i had to dig 48 more resin mats (wich is peace of cake).

3 items give 48 mats needed /item 3 give 36 mats needed/item = 144 + 78 = 222 mats

1/3 needs to be black (+1) to get it = 74 mats basicly more with the +1 colour stuff so on the 48 mats needed stuff u need 48/3 (3 colours red, blue, white as neun stated u cant use more as it would be basic stuff *shivers* and white aint an option for obvious reasons) so makes 16 + 1 = 17 blacks

222- 74 = 148 other mats left

so i dug the resin = 48 mats, 148 - 48 = 100 i needed to buy (as i lacked digging) = 100 * average price for choice stuff 2k/mat = 200k (without one single fail)

i didnt even calculated my black stuff yet (wiii me got them for free)

if not 300k wouldnt have been enough for a ql100!!!!!!!! black armour

[ilthor]

The prices here stated (and the situations around them...) are well know to any crafter who ever got an order i think... Thats why i almost don't sell, instead i get the dappers i need from grinding. Its not very nice that a crafter has no customers, but i stopped advertising or putting stuff of merchs cause of that. The only problem i see is that although there are some people who complain about no money drain, if you are not a crafter it can be hard to survive, given degrade rates on objects. I mean, if someone is lvling for 2 days in GoC in a fellow all his gear will prolly be gone, but during that same time if all the fellow loots they will not make enough dappers to continuosly be equiped..... So not all fault is on the buyers side, but on the present situation you can only get dappers by crafting, as after a certain point you spend more on hunting than you can recover from loot.


(P.S. to Neun - Strangely enough your armor vanished last night in packer > apartment exchanges *sob* ... ticket was sent though, so now wait for a reply.)

[alibasil]

I used to be ignorant in the way you describe.

I was pure melee did a little magic and craft and harvest were non-existent. So i didnt know about the time and effort that goes into crafting amazing items!

I can now harvest q110 mats and just filling my bag with mats takes quite a while! When i think of the amount of mats needed for HQ items it scares me!

However as a melee it is very true that generating dapper to buy items is definitely not easy! So i can understand it from both sides however im now more inclined to support the crafters here- it is quite a tough job!

[iphdrunk]

*agrees*

A few players are even reluctant to pay the dappers for the mats it takes just to craft the armor (including degrades) at 3k per mat

(5+5+2+2)*2 = 24
(3+3+2+2)*3 = 30

54 mats for a HQ light (q230 for example, black or white need to be dug in Prime Roots Wastelands or Undersprings). Assume only 1 branch is lvl 220, the rest are like 160-170. It is not uncommon to get 5 or 6 degrades (even more) for a perfect item for the lowest branches, even with 4:

54*4 ~ 200 mats, at 3k (even if hunters sell them rather at 4k - 5k) that's 600k, and I've been told that that's expensive.

That is assuming that the crafter gets almost no benefit (yes, he 'trains'...) and typically, after having raised both LA crafting and PR foraging (I wouldn't say that it's easy to get black or white resins and clothes in vendors).

For good or bad, Atys economy is not exaclty 'perfect', most high level crafters are not poor, and prefer to get paid in mats. Even if the buyer does not harvest as high as he asks for, crafters may have other lower branches as well. If the buyer can dig fine or basic mats ouside, filling a bag (4 stacks and half, more or less) takes less than 1h30 digging (and to be honest, it takes more to fill it in roots)

[borg9]

First to be really clear on this the post wasn't about fault, or me wanting to charge more. Its purely an awareness thing, I am become aware of some of the things about hunting as I start to lvl in the 200 and 250 zones, that have change my views on things (a lvl 145+ elem is pretty unstoppable with a really good healer, *hugs* Seren). I have noticed that alot of people don't loot (odd or when full tend to continue hunting regardless), I rarely loot as I don't need the money and would rather the rest of the team had a chance to get some .

(P.S. to Neun - Strangely enough your armor vanished last night in packer > apartment exchanges *sob* ... ticket was sent though, so now wait for a reply.)

Don't worry I will make you a new one, with better mats this time (private joke)

And most of the people that know me I usually have made moments and give stuff away, so money is not my motivator, its not in real life so why should it be in game

I take pride in my work and a smile is often payment enough, my charges have tended to be either token (400-800 mats or as a means to delay the collection time to give me a peaceful time to make the item).

[archerke]

i'm a decent crafter and i can say i could be poor. buying the stuff i need to lvl my swords ql200+ i pay around 2.5 - 4k/ bone for the nodes (if i occasionly find some) i even pay more. for excellent stuff (pr biggies i cant dig) i pay around 6k/item for excellent stuff.

i aint poor atm but if i wanted to grind it a bit i can be poor in 5 min

+ peeps say harvest it all urself hmz ever done one lvl above ql200 look how many mats go into just getting 1 tiny lvl

[hans1976]

In my experience, the buyers awareness is rising. I think you encountered a person who always got his armors for free from his guildies and outgrew the crafters or that wanted something very special.

[borg9]

i'm a decent crafter and i can say i could be poor. buying the stuff i need to lvl my swords ql200+ i pay around 2.5 - 4k/ bone for the nodes (if i occasionly find some) i even pay more. for excellent stuff (pr biggies i cant dig) i pay around 6k/item for excellent stuff.

i aint poor atm but if i wanted to grind it a bit i can be poor in 5 min

+ peeps say harvest it all urself hmz ever done one lvl above ql200 look how many mats go into just getting 1 tiny lvl

An interesting point, I haven't crafted seriously for about 2 weeks till last night. 2 weeks play, just in travel alone has cost me around 2 million dappers and I have given away about the same! I was quite suprised how much I earned from crafting (grind) and how much I spent

Now I know