PVP Augmentation throw your ideas into the bucket

[lariva]

Before commenting, please finish reading to the end of the post

When writing the stuff in, try to be objective; and I hope to God, developers/designers actually read these threads.

Problems with PVP as I see it today:

1) High Level players can pick on low level players, there are no penalties for that

2) There are no insentives to PVP other then to proove your PVP-Worth

3) The only reasonable contest is between two characters of the same level, affliction is simmilar to additing another 20 levels to primary casting skill

4) Amount of grind that needs to go into before reasonable PVP could commence - is enourmous.

5) There are major issues realted to self: healing/stamina/sap


Here is a solution, or a part thereof:

1) Remove the self heal/stamina/sap 'button' and bring back 'self heal/sap/stamina' spell. Bind the spell to the highest skill within particular tree instead of making it its own tree (no more yubo abuse)

That would mean, 250 in fighting will result in 250 mage-like casting ability for self stamina replenish spell (when it comes to interruptions and ability to cast with a weapon for self-stamina only).

This will result in a prolonged fight where heals, interruptions and amount of damage actually matters

2) Death Penalty and Experience

a)being killed in PVP will result in DP if not resurrected

b) Implement experience from PVP where a winner gains experience only when a victim gets DP, use the same multipliers as ones’ DP.

That is, if I’m a level 200 mage, that gets 300000 DP (without going into the real formula) that got killed by a level 200 fighter (would also get 300000 DP on his own death). I have given that fighter 300000 of my death penalty points (that I will have to work for when the time comes). The amount of XP fighter gains is proportionate to his level (i.e. in this case 300000 would give him 3000 XP).

If I’m a mage level 100 that got killed by level 200 fighter I have given the fighter 80000 Death Penalty points, hence the amount of XP gained by the fighter is similar to killing level 100 mob (i.e. 29xp?)

All this would take is to reverse death penalty points formula and make sure that when one looses it, the other one gains.

To prevent abuse of this – maximum death penalty needs to remove.
An alternate way to implement it is to treat an opposing character as a mob of (maximum level used within the fight)

This would make it less interesting for high level characters to gang low levels and make it more desirable for low levels to fight higher levels.

3) Buff / DeBuff – Power is Affliction based

4) Steal stamina/sap for mages/fighters

5) Special moves/spells to interrupt – will result in fighter tripping over his sword and failing on a swing. Will result in a mage failing on cast

For #3 and #4 and #5This would bring in interesting combinations, where fight would be based not only on direct damage dealt but also on strategy of dealing with damage dealt to you (which is not possible right now in 1 vs. 1)

6) Make focus useful in PVP – make concentration for mages and accurate attack for fighters use focus (!) - harvesting & crafting becomes more useful now
This is rather controversial; although one can argue, that if i can focus during crafting process or harvesting; conceptual skill can be applied elsewhere.

I have dipped myself in A1 stake sauce – getting ready to be flamed.
This post in no way should instigate mages vs. fighters vs. harvesters vs. mats – I have realized how PVP deficiencies are driving me to look at other games (i.e. guild wars); I’d hate to switch though, I figured I’ll give it a shot and attempt to save something I can see the game failing in.

[xcomvic]

oh no, not another one of these I like how you presented it, but really, I do not think we need another PvP thread, especially since we all know that this will get heated... as it's 4 am here in Japan, I won't even bother replying other than what i just wrote, but I can assure you, I will post something more constructive later on...

[tetra]

the nerfing and then later removal of self heal spells and replacement with the self heal abilities during beta took a huge amount of skill and strategy out of the game

[lariva]

the nerfing and then later removal of self heal spells and replacement with the self heal abilities during beta took a huge amount of skill and strategy out of the game

I'm in complete agreement with that - which is why I suggested to bring them back. Self Heal type spells were abused however, you could have gotten lvl 250 in 2 days, by fighting yubo without killing it and self healing... i think you might remember that one (which is exactly why I suggested not to have it as a separate tree but rather bind it to exisitng skill.


I still wonder who said that Ryzom PVP is implemented correctly; I wonder if that individual actually PVPs and if so has he/she tried it in other games.

[splatula]

I like most of your ideas, so I voted, Sounds Cool.

However, I don't think a fighter should have a self heal Spell...I believe that a Self Heal spell should be a Magic Brick, and Self Heal Skill should be a Melee Brick. There's nothing that says a fighter cannot use a spell, besides the obvious heavy use of Sap when using heavy armor.

As for high level chars picking on lower level chars... isn't that the way things are? I couldn't take out Hulk Hogan unless I used my brains, because I am a big wimp and one of his arms is as big as my thigh. If you work hard at a char you don't want to have to hide from low level chars, but at the same time I like your idea about using the DP reduction modifiers in reverse to GAIN XP. I would also like to see a way to PROVE you killed such and such a person, allowing for bounties and bragging rights. Something similar to old Diablo's ear system, only with something more personalized and stackable.

I also really dig your idea of using FOCUS with your other skills. It makes sense that it should affect the acccuracy and success rate of all the other skills. Now we just have to translate this post into francais and post a mirror of it on the French boards so the devs will read it and not just poor Cerest.

Oroboroed
Guild Leader
Joes Hotdog n' Bagpipe Emporium
http://www.hotdogsnbagpipes.com

[ozric]

To prevent abuse of this – maximum death penalty needs to remove.

Remove the max DP cap so some people can PvP ? No thanks !

[lariva]

here is a counter question - why would you need a cap on DP?
Thus far I have seen (and used) DP cap only in one case: Dig out mats in a highly aggroed area.

Generally speaking if you wonder into an area and keep dying there - perhaps you should not be there.

Remove the max DP cap so some people can PvP ? No thanks !

[lariva]

I like most of your ideas, so I voted, Sounds Cool.

However, I don't think a fighter should have a self heal Spell...I believe that a Self Heal spell should be a Magic Brick, and Self Heal Skill should be a Melee Brick. There's nothing that says a fighter cannot use a spell, besides the obvious heavy use of Sap when using heavy armor.

That is always an alternative, then fighers should have both skill bound to melee and a spell bound to magery. I play a mage, but it would not be fair to fighers to give them limited heals wheras mage would have unlimited.

As for high level chars picking on lower level chars... isn't that the way things are? I couldn't take out Hulk Hogan unless I used my brains, because I am a big wimp and one of his arms is as big as my thigh. If you work hard at a char you don't want to have to hide from low level chars, but at the same time I like your idea about using the DP reduction modifiers in reverse to GAIN XP. I would also like to see a way to PROVE you killed such and such a person, allowing for bounties and bragging rights. Something similar to old Diablo's ear system, only with something more personalized and stackable.

Aye, high levels are picking on low leves ; happens alot and will still happen, however there will be less insentive for high levels to attack lower ones other then just for PK

I also really dig your idea of using FOCUS with your other skills. It makes sense that it should affect the acccuracy and success rate of all the other skills. Now we just have to translate this post into francais and post a mirror of it on the French boards so the devs will read it and not just poor Cerest.

I'm glad I'm not alone on this - anyone speaks french?


Oroboroed
Guild Leader
Joes Hotdog n' Bagpipe Emporium
http://www.hotdogsnbagpipes.com[/QUOTE]

[lyrah68]

I say NO dp...and NO xp, there needs to be another "reward" or punishment/reward system. IE you kill an opposite famed player you gain fame in your faction and Lose a serious ammount of fame in the victim's fame.

They need to seriously tweek the healing system where you do NOT HAVE to rely on others for healing all the *expletive* time. Soloing post level 75 is pretty much a study in Masochism.

Fame needs to MEAN something, IE if you are red on the fame list...you SHOULD be KOS, period. Meaning...you kill enough Matis, then the Yrk guards are going to EAT YOU UP, not snarl at you or let the ragus eat you THEN kill it (like they already do, even on my Matis alts), but AID the Ragus then kill it.

And if a high level griefs a low level, they should gain a red name and enough time as a red name and they are SOL, no training, no selling, pretty much reroll your level umpty squat.

Before commenting, please finish reading to the end of the post

When writing the stuff in, try to be objective; and I hope to God, developers/designers actually read these threads.

Problems with PVP as I see it today:

1) High Level players can pick on low level players, there are no penalties for that

2) There are no insentives to PVP other then to proove your PVP-Worth

3) The only reasonable contest is between two characters of the same level, affliction is simmilar to additing another 20 levels to primary casting skill

4) Amount of grind that needs to go into before reasonable PVP could commence - is enourmous.

5) There are major issues realted to self: healing/stamina/sap


Here is a solution, or a part thereof:

1) Remove the self heal/stamina/sap 'button' and bring back 'self heal/sap/stamina' spell. Bind the spell to the highest skill within particular tree instead of making it its own tree (no more yubo abuse)

That would mean, 250 in fighting will result in 250 mage-like casting ability for self stamina replenish spell (when it comes to interruptions and ability to cast with a weapon for self-stamina only).

This will result in a prolonged fight where heals, interruptions and amount of damage actually matters

2) Death Penalty and Experience

a)being killed in PVP will result in DP if not resurrected

b) Implement experience from PVP where a winner gains experience only when a victim gets DP, use the same multipliers as ones’ DP.

That is, if I’m a level 200 mage, that gets 300000 DP (without going into the real formula) that got killed by a level 200 fighter (would also get 300000 DP on his own death). I have given that fighter 300000 of my death penalty points (that I will have to work for when the time comes). The amount of XP fighter gains is proportionate to his level (i.e. in this case 300000 would give him 3000 XP).

If I’m a mage level 100 that got killed by level 200 fighter I have given the fighter 80000 Death Penalty points, hence the amount of XP gained by the fighter is similar to killing level 100 mob (i.e. 29xp?)

All this would take is to reverse death penalty points formula and make sure that when one looses it, the other one gains.

To prevent abuse of this – maximum death penalty needs to remove.
An alternate way to implement it is to treat an opposing character as a mob of (maximum level used within the fight)

This would make it less interesting for high level characters to gang low levels and make it more desirable for low levels to fight higher levels.

3) Buff / DeBuff – Power is Affliction based

4) Steal stamina/sap for mages/fighters

5) Special moves/spells to interrupt – will result in fighter tripping over his sword and failing on a swing. Will result in a mage failing on cast

For #3 and #4 and #5This would bring in interesting combinations, where fight would be based not only on direct damage dealt but also on strategy of dealing with damage dealt to you (which is not possible right now in 1 vs. 1)

6) Make focus useful in PVP – make concentration for mages and accurate attack for fighters use focus (!) - harvesting & crafting becomes more useful now
This is rather controversial; although one can argue, that if i can focus during crafting process or harvesting; conceptual skill can be applied elsewhere.

I have dipped myself in A1 stake sauce – getting ready to be flamed.
This post in no way should instigate mages vs. fighters vs. harvesters vs. mats – I have realized how PVP deficiencies are driving me to look at other games (i.e. guild wars); I’d hate to switch though, I figured I’ll give it a shot and attempt to save something I can see the game failing in.

[lyrah68]

To have SOME hope of ever digging your self out of a lag spike death or 12.

here is a counter question - why would you need a cap on DP?
Thus far I have seen (and used) DP cap only in one case: Dig out mats in a highly aggroed area.

Generally speaking if you wonder into an area and keep dying there - perhaps you should not be there.