I have to agree with grimyjimmy on this one. I have played several FPS games, and I currently play America's Army and the BF2 demo in addition to Ryzom. Where as I might spend 40 hours plus a week playing Ryzom when I have that much time to do so, I might play the FPS games 4 to 8 hours a week at the very most. Granted there are others like me that play both FPS and MMORPGs, but if look at those that purchase and play FPS games they are a different market alltogether. Same with stategy games, sports sims or flight sims. Each genre is not just different as a game type but as a cross section of the gamers out there. I'm not saying that hardcore FPS gamers don't play MMORPGs, but none of the guys in my America's Army clan of 20 that I'm a member of plays mmorpgs cept me. When they do it is a game more like Guild Wars. I have met very few people on the America's Army forums that play mmorpgs. More often than not they are playing a sports sim or other FPS games in addition to the current one they are playing. When I do come across a fellow gamer who plays an mmorpg, more often than not they aren't playing currently but have played WoW or tried EQ2. Another fact is that the average fps gamers don't usually play the same fps game for more than a year and then move on to another game, usually the new kid on the block.grimjim wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more fundamentally or completely, for reasons which should be clear enough from my other posts and shouldn't need re-expressing here.
The markets are different, even if some people like both. The mistake from my POV is the MMORPGs trying to appeal to the FPS crowd, assuming that all online gaming is the same.
To create a mmorpg to reflect an fps game you would have a large fps contingent playing such a game but no "rp" going on let me tell you, nor would you have many core mmorpg fans playing it. PvP should be designed so that it interacts and goes along with the story line and the world the game is set in. It shouldn't be designed to attract a whole different genre of players which in the end alienates the core mmorpg players who would stick with the life of the mmorpg and provide a stable income base for said developer of mmorpg. PvP should not overshadow the game and should not be a bone of contention. I am not saying there won't be disaggreements or complaints because you get enough people playing a mmorpg whether there is PvP or no PvP someone is going to step on someone else's toes and/or hurt another's feelings.
Hopefully, Nevrax will implement outpost in a way that makes PvP a reflection of the Ryzom story and developing game world and in turn the actions that involve and surround the outposts help to shape said story as well as provide a way for us players to better shape the world in which our toons live. If the outposts and PvP are being designed to replace the story and just be one big open gank fest in hopes of attracting a whole new customer base, then you will more than likely see another mass exodous of players and new said customer base will more than likely provide income for just a short while...not long enough to sustain the game.
edit: Dang my fingers aren't quick enuf today
.Battlefield 2 does much of this. You create a soldier when you log on that you can advance in rank and experience. Depending on what type of weapons and equipment load you pick, and how well you play that role determines how many points you earn as well as how quickly. You get points for healing another soldier as a medic or fixing a tank if you are a combat engineer or supplying ammo to a soldier if you are support and so on. When you get enough points, new weapons and equipment become available to use. Not only that the key to winning a match in BF2 vs other FPS games is cooperation within squads and among squads with each soldier playing a different role as a commander, rifleman, medic, commando, sniper, engineer, support and so on. One team of rambos will get their hiney's kicked by the other team even if one of the squads is organized. Not only that but like many other modern fps online games, the community is usually team based with the majority belonging to a clan.hebucis wrote:MMOG's can take all the aspects of FPS games and improve on them substantially. There is no reason why a MMOG, done properly, couldn't absord the majority of the FPS market by giving them character developement and persistent communities in which their deeds and accomplishments matter, all while giving them all the white knuckle excitement of team-based combat. You dont even need FPS combat really, you just need to put a premium on competition as well as co-operation, community and character building.
The only real question is whether or not competition and teambased combat would bring something new and fun to the MMOG crowd. I think it would. Not only would it enhance MMOG's by bringing another important element to the game, it would also help the sense of community substantially.
Nothing brings people together like a common enemy made up of real people rather then AI
BF2 is fun and exciting and fresh, but it is no mmorpg and most certainly no Ryzom. Besides there is already team based combat and cooperation in Ryzom. Whilest one can trek around Atys by themselves and explore the land. It takes teamwork and skill to lead a group of new players and/or lower level inexperienced players on a trek. The awesome kitin raid in January required teamwork from all the races as well as different skill classes to win that event. There is currently an uneasy standoff going on between the kami and karavan factions and you have at least one to two more major groups of homins and guilds out there, maybe more, trying to promote peace and homin unity caught in the middle of it all. Outpost will bring additional guild vs guild combat, and the really prime ones will require much cooperation and effort from the guild that owns them to keep them.
The concern a good many of us have are the players that don't want their toons to participate in PvP either because of the way they play, their viewpoint, their morals, ect. ect. or they just don't like PvP, will those people have a choice a not to avoid the PvP. They make up more of the community than you realize.
( I am thinking about an allianz with the cutes 
). But i wont give up until they are there