Ryzom

OOC of course, speaking hypothetically

phradok wrote:Negotiate a cease fire.

Oh that's easy, as long as they obey a few, minor, insignificant terms like renouncing to all outposts, leaving the lands and and..__ offtopic: have you seen Braveheart and his terms to avoid war? __

Negotiate a cease fire requires an agreement on the terms, the election or identification of a commander to accept or reject these terms and a few nitpicking things that it could be hard to make all players abide by...without mentioning the fact that there is an important difference between the Kami/Karavan conflict and the conflict between Kamists and Jenaist homins. As homins we can hardly impact the conflict between kami and Karavan, it's above us; at most, we can impact the conflict between kamists and jenaists homins, but that is, supposedly being critic with the terms that define your faith.


Otoh, the original lore, the messages sent and the speeches given by k envoys during ep2, the edict of 4 peoples and the last treaty signed by leaders, they seem to send diverging signals.

Well, silly metaphors I can play around with. Picture:

OP = nut (although cookie works better in my mind)
Kami = hand
Kara = bottle (or cookie jar here)

"Hand" can't get "nut" due to "bottle". So to get "nut", open "hand" and let go of "nut" for now. Then

1. Tip bottle over to get nut, or
2. Break bottle with closed fist, or
3. Break bottle with "hammer" (RP a traitor who is high level within KA ranks which could lead to breaking the alliance maybe?), or
4. Drop bottle which will break to pieces

Someone can fill in what these could mean. Just a neutral here having fun with the comparisons. *poofs*

0balgus0 wrote:Well, silly metaphors I can play around with. Picture:

In the best spirit of silly comparisons, b@w situations, and almost flooding posts, one point is that maybe the bottle does not want hand to have nut -- most radical followers would agree this could be a ultimate goal, the destruction of the opposing faction--, and an outcome that you did not mention was "monkey renounces to nut and starves".



Ps: we seem to be pretty close to godwin point, I'm doing my best to avoid it any analogy with rl is purely coincidental.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

iphdrunk wrote:"monkey renounces nut to bottle and starves".

Ah I forgot that one, yes.

1. Tip bottle over to get nut

Not a freaking clue what this could mean

2. Break bottle with closed fist

Kamists beats Karavaneers (without involving OPs?) by force - as far as I can see this isn't going to happen in the near future without some drastic changes (or until Spires come in and the kamists really keep their spires kami)

3. Break bottle with "hammer"

RP a traitor who is high level within KA ranks which could lead to breaking the alliance maybe? (your answer already)

4. Drop bottle which will break to pieces

Kamists ignores Karavaneers completely and hope that we destroy ourselves (long wait, possibility of losing while waiting)

This is all assuming that continuing on the current aim of OPs without some change in approach won't work (ie the monkey can't manage to get the nut out by perserverence)

1. Tip bottle over to get nut out.

Negotiate terms of cease-fire. That keeps the bottle(Karavan) in tact. The bottle doesn't have to have the monkey's hand jammed inside it and the monkey gets to eat the nut. Sort of a reach, I know. hehe

seems some here do understand what i mean.

to explain a bit on the metaphor i brought up:

the kamis want ops. the kamis see the only way to get them by the sword. in their struggle to reach the goal by the swod they concentrate on it more and more and forget that there are other ways.

i'm not going to say which ways there are. if i would bring up an idea and the kami take it up, well, then the karavan know it as well, making the whole thing pointless.

of course there are also ideas which for which it would be beneficient if the karavan knew about them, but well, i only gave the hint. to do the homework is now the task of you players.

ignoreing the monkey/nut/cookie things youve got going here just thought id add some thoughts.

With a huge infulx of new players ryzom will undoubtably change over the next few months as these now nebiews start to get skills high enough to shout about.


Few examples as to why in a few months the game will be very very one sided kara.

ATM there are more matis newbies than any other (from what i have seen) and matis get an auto +20 kara fame (IIRC) so its 'easier' for them to go kara.

I was talking to a fyrosian newbie who is going to go kara - becuase the kara seem more 'evil' - interesting. that this newbie saw the kara as more evil and thus more fun (like playiny dark side in the non online Star wars games, or doing the black hand missions in elder scrolls IV etc etc)

I have spoken to several unguilded newbies in the past few weeks asking them what they think they will do with their characater.. most of them said that they wanted to have the best stuff. and their perspective was that the kara, by far, had better stuff (EXP cats were a big things)

Add this all to spires = (IMO) disarster.

with Spires buffing up the faction that owns them will only mean more homins will turn kara due to the fact that the kami wont be able to hold their own.

With spires restcting acess (IIRC) to certian points then over time you'll see kami turn neturel or leave due to the fact the game becomes unplayable.

Its just how i see things at the moment. and well we'll see if im right (i hope im not)

Tyilin

xxx

I am really sorry to see you leaving after such a short time. I am really sorry that you judge the Karavan and the kami and neutral without really giving either a chance. Good luck to you wherever you may journey next.

I am sorry that there are many that feel that OP battles are one sided because this assumption assumes that power is absolute and that absolute power corrupts absolutely, forever. It doesn't with us, but no war is won by the soldiers on one side saying that the other side is uneven so let's sit back and give them a chance to regroup so they can kill us when they're ready.

I am really sorry that the kami declare on OPs held by the Karavan, making sure to do it at the hours convienent to their timezone; (not saying anything is wrong with this, so please don't go there), and then are completely surprised by the number of Karavan showing up to defend them. I am really sorry that people feel that its necessary to call each other names when at OP battles and then call it roleplaying. I never pay attention to region or around chat at OP battles unless it has something to do with my side's organization so I don't usually come away from a battle resenting the people who engage in this style of play.

I am really sorry that powerleveling is considered a tactic to win or defeat anything. I've been here long enough, have had many friends who use this method and have watched them leave because they leveled themselves into boredom. For myself, I have been here for almost two years and have only one 250 level skill.

I am really sorry that Infinity left. A good strong kami guild of players dedicated to good PvP and good crafting and good exploring and good adventuring and good friends. I had many among them. Some of them come back and what do they see for their efforts in starting the kami off with a good foundation? Low kami numbers (I can't win so I switch sides or quit, leading to more low kami numbers), deep resentment and bitterness, a dedicated few like Jack (/tar Jack bow) who never say die, deep division among the kami, a definite lack of organization outside of OP battles?

I am sorry that catalysers have become the be all and end all to a lot of people. I can take them or leave them since they aren't the only output of OPs. I like getting my skills up the old-fashioned way, concentrated time and effort, for me, makes the game more enjoyable. But then I also feel that no one should have to justify their use or non-use of the most devisive result of OPs. Hopefully, the Ring will rectify this imbalance and give all who want more content (I really have trouble with this argument, since content has different meanings to different people) their ultimate desire.

The Karavan weren't always the ones with the highest numbers and they won't be again if those who are kami stop leaving because they aren't winning now. Grrgh, did I just say that? Contrary to popular kami opinion, the majority of the Karavan were followers of Jena before OPs and will continue to be so after OPs and beyond. I wasn't one of them then, but the temple event convinced me to rethink my position. I see what is happening to the kami and the neutral numbers now yet nothing so far in the arguments I see here have convinced me I made the wrong choice.

So I say to you, followers of Ma-Duk, stay, regroup, organize, find enjoyment again and give us, the followers of Jena, the challenge we really deserve from you. And stop blaming us, we have real lifes, and sacrifice a great deal of it to be there for those of you who want to contest OPs.

These are my opinions, they don't have to be yours. No offense is intended and my apologies in advance if any is taken.

For the monkey to get the nut the monkey must be one with the bottle