Lousy community

[gavin205]

Sorry, apparently I didn't make mine.
First what some guilds are doing to "defend" their outposts by staging attacks and locking others out is wrong, plain and simple. But the devs are working to correct that, so I felt it wasn't worth commenting on.
My comments were directed at the idea that crystal distribution should be "fair" to everyone. It's pretty obvious that this game and outposts specifically isn't intended to be "fair". If you want to do such find some people and take some outposts, and distribute the spoils as you see fit. But be prepared to defend those outposts when those "greedy" guilds come to take it back.
If you do that I may even come stand beside you on that day. But understand I am a Dragonblade, and my loyalty to my guild and our alliances comes first. So pick your friends well.
Just so it is clear, this is my opinion, and I do not set guild policy.

Yudachi

[bgraz]

Would you be prepared to do that night after night, for attacks that didn't actually take place?

That sounds like a good battle tactic that creates an element of surprise for an attacker.

I'm done with the topic after this but can you anwser 1 question, Do you feel you have an unwavering right to you OP without the opportunity for any other guild on Atys to challenge that right and possibly hold it untill the next challenge arises and passes control of it?

If its such a hassle holding onto the most sought after item in the game then mabey you should have thought about that before you obtained it in the first place.

Kinda funny, last time i was in the Void Infinity's OP's were,i'm sure proudly, still open for attack, with no declaration on it. hmmm I wonder why they are so brave ...BTW i know many homins runnin around with nice sparklies thanx to some kind big blue homin

[bgraz]

So you're admitting to wanting to use an exploit are you?

was sorta being a smartass

[riveit]

I'm sorry but how do you reckon that it's unfair that the people who play more, and were online when the OPs were patched, got first chance at claiming one?? You knew when they were being patched in, same as everyone. You had warning, same as everyone. You could have got someone in game to declare on an OP like everyone else did. There's nothing unfair about it far as I can see. Please explain how you think it was unfair?!

Timezone fairness. The server booted during the middle of the NA workday. So for NA people that have jobs and had to be at work, they logged on after all outposts were taken. Since many guilds are segregated mainly by timezone, guilds with mainly NA membership tended to lose out. (Don't make me think about Aussie or Asian timing! ) Then we were told all about the Atys new world order of owners sharing mats and crystals with each other, defending each other etc. In many cases, even the marauder battles were timed before we were online, we were not informed of them, and then we were told we did nothing to gain the outpost so no crystals. I would have liked to see outpost availability to pop up at random times over 24 hours or so to make things fair for everyone.

I suggested before that marauders should attack outposts at random times and only the owner guild can defend it. If they lose to marauders, they cannot reattack it and an MOTD message is sent out telling everyone that marauders own it. Perhaps one or two outposts across Atys could be attacked by marauders every day. I think that would be a nice mechanism to shake up ownership and let everyone get a chance eventually own an outpost without the acrimony of intrafactional or intraracial wars.

Sorry to be impolitic but I thought these basic facts would be obvious to all.

[akm72]

...Do you feel you have an unwavering right to you OP without the opportunity for any other guild on Atys to challenge that right and possibly hold it untill the next challenge arises and passes control of it?...

I feel the OP is our property, and see no difference between our ownership of it and my RL ownership of my house. If another guild want to aquire our OP, they should try to buy it off us, not use force. Those guilds who do attack, without just cause, are little better than bandits IMO. On the other hand, I'd prefer not to rely on an exploit to protect it, much better to rely on alliances and mutual defence.

...Kinda funny, last time i was in the Void Infinity's OP's were,i'm sure proudly, still open for attack, with no declaration on it. hmmm I wonder why they are so brave ...BTW i know many homins runnin around with nice sparklies thanx to some kind big blue homin

Attacks that I've seen up to now have mainly been from Karavan/Matis guilds, presumably as part of their religious war of genocide, trying to gain a foothold in the desert. Why they arn't trying to attack the Infinity is a question to be directed at them, but I doubt it's because Infinity are generous with their OP mats and crystals.

[g00st]

(OOC:
our tactic and tried to get in on the action, offering to do us the service for OP mats. When we said no, they started stirring it up on the forums. workaround that is being employed by a number of guilds. It has never been stated as an exploit, we have openly said we will stop if it ever IS declared an exploit. We are also the most open guild about discussing this and other OP matters.)

Gah is there some sort of two tier system at work? this seems a funny debate where the usual mmm how to say up-ety bouncy tryker full of morals part of the community is actually the dundun dun "bad guy"... suppose its quite right in a way....

[ghyselsj]

Please all..

This thread is not about false declarations..
There is another one for that.

~Supernovae

You also said this thread isnt about outpost rotation or whatever could be done to make it "fair"* to everyone. So either I'm missing out on something here (doubt it, read entire thread 3 times now), or you just simply failed to state your point clearly, cause I sure don't see it. So, pray tell, what is this thread about?

* I wrote "fair" cause you do not seem to think it is. I however do. Want an outpost? Take it and be prepared to defend it. Can't take** or defend it? Tough luck for you. (I'm using this as general speech, not directed towards Supernovae or anyone in specific.) *

** If you can't take it cause of a false declaration, it kinda sucks. I and many other guilds and people I know frown upon this. At the moment there is nothing you can do about it, but starting a rant about it just makes the community worse. Suck it up and pay them back when they can't do it anymore. **

PS: Well, there goes my resolve of only posting here once...

Greets,

[riveit]

I feel the OP is our property, and see no difference between our ownership of it and my RL ownership of my house.

Mioette, you are one of my favorite homins. But I've got to vehemently disagree with you here. Maybe the argument works IC, but OOC I think it is ridiculous. Thousands of players have paid money to play in Ryzom on an equal footing, with equal access to all game features. Now, you say that because a Samsara clicked on the declaration button first, it is your RL property (and for all time if you manage to use the "rp declaration" exploit) with all the legal ownership that entails. Did all of us pay for equal access to your RL house? Are we all entitled to lounge about your living room and rifle through your refrigerator?

[sprite]

Edit: Ah, forget it

[akm72]

Mioette, you are one of my favorite homins. But I've got to vehemently disagree with you here. Maybe the argument works IC, but OOC I think it is ridiculous. Thousands of players have paid money to play in Ryzom on an equal footing, with equal access to all game features. Now, you say that because a Samsara clicked on the declaration button first, it is your RL property (and for all time if you manage to use the "rp declaration" exploit) with all the legal ownership that entails. Did all of us pay for equal access to your RL house? Are we all entitled to lounge about your living room and rifle through your refrigerator?

You're a cutie too and it is an IC argument. Surely issues of in-game politics about OP ownership and trade of the mats/crystals they produce have to be?
OOC it is unfortunate and unfair that the NA guilds had problems getting OPs because of time zones. With hindsight, maybe the Tryker guilds could've held a meeting before release of the OPs to divide them up equitably, or the NA guilds could've hired EU/UK representatives to declare war for them. As this didn't happen, they got selected on first-come/first-serve basis and you guys lost out. It's unfair, but so is the fact that some people get born with rich parents and others without, and it doesn't justify the poor robbing the rich.
IMO if you want access to the advantages the current OPs provide without harming your reputation, you need to trade or form alliances with the current OP owners. I think you will find that most will be willing to cooperate, as they have more to gain with your goodwill than your enmity.