Ryzom

opulence wrote:Think strategically. Nevrax has just released a new patch, a patch that they knew most existing players would be furious about, a patch that will undoubtedly cause many account losses. If I were with Nevrax's marketing department, I'd want to bring in NEW players for two reasons. One, (the obvious) to replace the players that are leaving. And two, new players don't have a clue about how good it was, and consequently, also have no clue about how bad it is now. (Everything is relative after all.) One thing MMORPG devs need to get through their heads though, is that pumping up the grind may increase game longevity, (in hours required to get to endgame) but it sucks the fun, playablity, and player interest (of the game) right down the toilet. This game isn't through just yet, but from what I'm seeing lately, it's starting to circle the drain.

True true, but most of us that cancelled today have a month of playing time left on our accounts and we CAN just sit out in regional chat and go on and on about the problems of the new patch to the point where the freebie-ers figure why bother buying the game after the free time!

cerest wrote:With the addition of Patch one and the bit torrent availibility, we are announcing a free 14 day trial open to the public starting on November 8th. This trial will go on until further notice. Have fun and spread the word!

I am afraid after the disaster of this patch, the word of mouth may not be of the kind you had prior to the patch. If some serious issues are not fixed, the word Ghost Town comes to mind. I just spend all day havesting, and hunting monsters, I now have about 650,000 dp, and no real pracitical way to work it off. 4-5 hours projected time to work it off is not most folks idea of fun. The conversations I saw on the Regional today, sure, indicate, many, many folks are thinking of leaving if things don't get a lot better within the next few days. I sure hope the development team puts the petal to the metal, and I would suggest before a major release patch occurs, that some beta testing by the players be done to incorperate feedback on how it effects the playablity of the game. I sure hope you pull this one out of the fire.

opulence wrote:Think strategically. Nevrax has just released a new patch, a patch that they knew most existing players would be furious about, a patch that will undoubtedly cause many account losses. If I were with Nevrax's marketing department, I'd want to bring in NEW players for two reasons. One, (the obvious) to replace the players that are leaving. And two, new players don't have a clue about how good it was, and consequently, also have no clue about how bad it is now. (Everything is relative after all.) One thing MMORPG devs need to get through their heads though, is that pumping up the grind may increase game longevity, (in hours required to get to endgame) but it sucks the fun, playablity, and player interest (of the game) right down the toilet. This game isn't through just yet, but from what I'm seeing lately, it's starting to circle the drain.

Oh yeah that's it. They would purposefully release a patch that would make people furious. With this kind of thinking it's good you aren't in Nevrax's marketing department. I understand there are some problems with the patch, but it is just NOT that serious. It's one thing to talk about problems, but some people are all about just purely bashing. The programmers have been awesome about fixing things in a timely manner and absolutely wonderful about listening to the players and what they want. The patch JUST came out and ya all are already jumping all over it. Sounds to me like you all are looking for something wrong. Just because you can't go out and level 500 times in a day now does not make this game a bad choice. And speak for yourself, alot of us are still interested in this game and still having fun and are willing to hang in there, which really isn't asking alot as I think alot of people are totally making way more out of these issues than needed. Even through the patches, ect. I have enjoyed playing this game. This game is wonderful and refreshing. So different from the tedious repetative MMORPG's out there. As for people not knowing what they are missing, hey my mom and I have been here since beta and if anything they are improving the game (ya ya yada yada yada I know they still have issues to be fixed and they will fix them) and it will only get even better. So don't let people's sourness, whining and tendency to bash fool you or turn you away.

gddss wrote: The programmers have been awesome about fixing things in a timely manner and absolutely wonderful about listening to the players and what they want. The patch JUST came out and ya all are already jumping all over it. Sounds to me like you all are looking for something wrong.

Are you refering to the awesome job the programmers did when they didnt fix the entire Close Combat tree not getting exp? This was reported to them and they knew about it. Perhaps your refering to the packer bug that you cant remove items from, which was also reported before the patch went live that didnt get fixed. These 2 issues ALONE should have held up the patch, you dont release bugged patches, its not smart. We wont get into the fact that people posted on the boards about how serious all these changes were, and also told people that it was going to cause serious concerns in the community. I dont know if they were under direction of the management to release the patch reguardless of the fact that it had obviously not finished testing, nor was it in working order, or if they just ignored everything we told them, and pushed on with the attutude that they knew best.

This patch was a huge blow to my confidence in the dev team, and for Nevrax in general. The decisions made for this patch were far from insightful, and showed a blatent disreguard for what we were trying to warn them about. I spent 2 days testing Patch 1, and everything I said didnt get any "visable" consideration. I personally sent a report to the GMs telling them and I quote. "If you release the patch in its current state, you guys better be ready for it, cause people are going to freak out."

You can lead the horse to water, but ......

I hope they learned a lot from this. I really never want to have to deal with anything like this again.

alugilac wrote:Are you refering to the awesome job the programmers did when they didnt fix the entire Close Combat tree not getting exp? This was reported to them and they knew about it. Perhaps your refering to the packer bug that you cant remove items from, which was also reported before the patch went live that didnt get fixed. These 2 issues ALONE should have held up the patch, you dont release bugged patches, its not smart. We wont get into the fact that people posted on the boards about how serious all these changes were, and also told people that it was going to cause serious concerns in the community. I dont know if they were under direction of the management to release the patch reguardless of the fact that it had obviously not finished testing, nor was it in working order, or if they just ignored everything we told them, and pushed on with the attutude that they knew best.

This patch was a huge blow to my confidence in the dev team, and for Nevrax in general. The decisions made for this patch were far from insightful, and showed a blatent disreguard for what we were trying to warn them about. I spent 2 days testing Patch 1, and everything I said didnt get any "visable" consideration. I personally sent a report to the GMs telling them and I quote. "If you release the patch in its current state, you guys better be ready for it, cause people are going to freak out."

You can lead the horse to water, but ......

I hope they learned a lot from this. I really never want to have to deal with anything like this again.

For crying out loud, talk about over reacting. Yes they still have some things to fix, I realize that and have stated as such, but again it is just NOT that serious. I know they WILL fix these things. Ok maybe they should of fixed more of these things before they released, but omg this is nothing ocmpared to some of the crap we had to deal with when EQ started using DX9. It's not like these are issues that have been going on forever and have not been fixed unlike EQ which in fact still hasn't been fixed completely. For those of you who don't know about this, the major issue was getting stuck on walls and not being able to move, they then created the /rewind command to roll ya back a little bit before ya got stuck, which that didn't even work for some, which eventually they got working, but the fact that you still even have to use it is lame. They didn't fix the problem, they just put a bandaid over it. At least with SOR they actually fix things. It's going to be a progress in the works as any game is, and yes again I know they should of fixed some other things before patch, but no matter the problems I think they are headed in the right direction.

gddss wrote:Oh yeah that's it. They would purposefully release a patch that would make people furious. With this kind of thinking it's good you aren't in Nevrax's marketing department. I understand there are some problems with the patch, but it is just NOT that serious. It's one thing to talk about problems, but some people are all about just purely bashing.

Was that a flame? I think that was a flame. Bashing you say? No, bashing is saying something like, "Nevrax purposfully released a patch with the sole intention of infuriating their players!" What I said was, " Nevrax has just released a new patch, a patch that they knew most existing players would be furious about,". Ok I'll admit that I may have been stretching it a bit when I said "most."
I should rather have used the word "many."

I've been playing various MMORPGs since the begining of EQ, and have endured far too many bugs, mousewheels, and the assortment of gameplay issues that continuously develope from the previous two, to loyaly sit back, and tell the devs, "It's ok. Do whatever you like." when I see things start to take a dive. (imo)
I understand your zealousness to defend Ryzom, and I'll aggree that it is one of the few (a couple maybe) good MMORPGs to date, but you missunderstand our position as players.
While it is always good to help the dev team in any way possible, it is not our duty to be loyal to any game for any reason other than our level of enjoyment in it. It IS our duty however, to demand excellence and accept nothing less. We, the players, are the counterweight in the equation. Don't be fooled into thinking that Nevrax isn't just like any other "for profit" bussiness. Economically speaking, it's just bad bussiness to put any more money (man-hours, materials, effort ect ect) into a product than is nessasary for it to sell. To put it bluntly, if we don't speak up when we are dissatisfied, we'll end up with dozens of MMORPGs that are no fun to play. Oh wait a sec! We're pretty much there already!

............

opulence wrote:Was that a flame? I think that was a flame. Bashing you say? No, bashing is saying something like, "Nevrax purposfully released a patch with the sole intention of infuriating their players!" What I said was, " Nevrax has just released a new patch, a patch that they knew most existing players would be furious about,". Ok I'll admit that I may have been stretching it a bit when I said "most."
I should rather have used the word "many."

I've been playing various MMORPGs since the begining of EQ, and have endured far too many bugs, mousewheels, and the assortment of gameplay issues that continuously develope from the previous two, to loyaly sit back, and tell the devs, "It's ok. Do whatever you you like." when I see things start to take a dive. (imo)
I understand your zealousness to defend Ryzom, and I'll aggree that it is one of the few (a couple maybe) good MMORPGs to date, but you missunderstand our position as players.
While it is always good to help the dev team in any way possible, it is not our duty to be loyal to any game for any reason other than our level of enjoyment in it. It IS our duty however, to demand excellence and accept nothing less. We, the players, are the counterweight in the equation. Don't be fooled into thinking that Nevrax isn't just like any other "for profit" bussiness. Economically speaking, it's just bad bussiness to put any more money (man-hours, materials, effort ect ect) into a product than is nessasary for it to sell. To put it bluntly, if we don't speak up when we are dissatisfied, we'll end up with dozens of MMORPGs that are no fun to play. Oh wait a sec! We're pretty much there already!

Call it what you want, you were bashing without even giving it a chance. As I said it's one thing to point out problems, but you took it to a whole other ballpark. I understand frustration at bugs, ect. But I also understand this game is new to the market and will need at least some time to work on those. For that matter, there are games that have been out there for years that still need work. At least it can be said about SOR that they fix their problems quickly and not just slap a bandaid over it. If you have a problem with this and feel so negatively towards it, the solution is simple. Stop playing. Those of us who enjoy the game and realize there are going to be bugs to be worked out really don't need to listen to others obnoxious shouting. The programmers know what's wrong and they have and will continue to fix anything that comes up and gee go figure, it doesn't take bashing and negative attitudes to do it either.

What's wrong, is that they turned up the grind, making what was once a fun game into yet another duldrum of myrads of hours spent getting nowhere. Hey I've got an idea! Why don't you go grind to your heart's content, while I try to warn all the other would-be players that share my opinion on grinding. What was once a shining star of hope for the recreational gamer, is now just another dissapointment among many.

Ooh! ooh! I'm bashing! I'm flaming! Whatever... have fun grinding.

Or hey, write up another string of insults to hurl my way. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

I understand frustration at bugs, ect. But I also understand this game is new to the market and will need at least some time to work on those.

First let me just say I'm hopeful for Ryzom in the future.

Just to clarify, there are bugs and then there are gameplay mechanics.

If the damage your weapon does gets partially displayed in the system window, it's a bug if the actual damage is still correctly calculated for the encounter.

Changing the way your weapon does damage during an enounter to something different than it was before, that's a modification to gameplay mechanics.

It is completely acceptable for a company to tweak and change the former. It is not acceptable for them to do the latter, post-release. It's their software and one could argue they can do anything they want. They can. So can players.

A company who adds new zones, armor, weapons, etc. to the game after release is adding content. This is expected (no, demanded) from the playerbase.

A company that negates the accomplishments of player-characters attained before adding content is modifying the gameplay mechanics. This is a no-no. You can see the result of such a situation right here (leveled crafting trees).

To the quote, I understand you like the game. So do I. But I have to say, the company is repeating the mistakes made by other companies in the past. Why? Does it really take first-hand failures to know what works and what doesn't?

If I look at the situation from the dev's perspective, I would say any arguments about this being their first MMO, etc. are indeed valid IF it takes first-hand failures to gain the necessary skills to run a game of this type. I just don't see how they can't know to stop a patch with far-reaching changes that negates the accomplishments of current players. How can they believe that it's ok? Look at the flame-fests on other games' boards. The information is out there. Ignorance on their part can't possibly be an excuse because the net is peppered with reviews, rantings, etc. And frankly, I think devs in general are pretty wicked smart people (the ones I know anyway).

From the players perspective, I see gamers who have paid good money time and time again for games that are buggy, have no content, don't work with popular hardware, etc. Given the craptastic titles offered to us these days, is it any wonder why we react the way we do? In large part, the negative environment is created by game companies that try to peddle crap so they can rake in your cash as fast as possible and bail.

I don't believe Nevrax is such a company. But I do believe gamers don't care that Nevrax isn't such a company.

All game companies are to blame, but none individually are to blame, if you catch my meaning. The only consistent entity in all this is the player.

The player takes the brunt everytime.

The player gets 300 hours of crafting flushed when they reset his desired outcome into a different skill tree.

The player has to deal with skills not affecting mobs in the world after he spent hundreds of hours attaining them.

The player has to work off the DP created by an environment that isn't working and is (was) unplayable.

Finally, it's up to the player to decide if it's still worth having his accomplishments washed away, his man-hours trivialized, his fun ground away working off DP, etc., even if you think the premise of the game is solid, as I do.

Not to Nevrax specifically, but I think gamers are tired of being milked by companies who seemingly believe it's ok to throw dung at us and charge for it. The ride is over. Gaming consumers expect results.