A Possible Third Group (Faction ?)

[danolt]

It is fairly easy to place faith in Tryton since he has never said anything. So what is going to happen when he talks? What if he wants to enflame the faction war, remove a standing government, attack the Kitin deep in their own lairs? You know, what if he actually wants others to help him do something?

Lets say he gets some stuff to share, patterns, tps, whatever. Is Elias going to share his secrets with everyone? If he does not what would be the justification for not sharing with factioned Homins? All Homins are equal except the ones who have religion, so my loyal followers, you can not share with the fanatic.

There is always the chance that Tryton is dead and that the fellow who showed up awhile back was a "Dread Pirate Roberts." He may not even be a Homin. According to the Zoari it was an apparition of Elias that appeared 50 years ago to lead Homins to the rainbow gates. He might just be a Karavan hologram.

No matter what he is getting old, unless they decide to change the fact that Homins age.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think the only reason Elias is apealing is because he is not defined and as soon as Elias opens his mouth there will be complaints about not having a developer supported faction that represents some groups RP stance. It is a no win situation.

Once the R2 tool reaches half its potential and Atys can be created faster then we can explore it, there will be more room to have developer supported areas that cater to distinct subsets. But right now, I think it is much more important to add to the game then it is to change it.

As a side note: I have never met a Frenchman who did not tell me that I was doing something wrong and that the only way to do it was their way. Nevrax is like in a whole country of them. So I am pretty sure they have no problem not catering to our every desire. This may be a sandbox game, but I don't think they are going to give us an unlimited choice of sand colors to play with.

[sprite]

The third group, whatever they turn out to be, needn't get the same or as many benefits as the factioned groups but still needs to be viable to play and enjoy.

I'm intrigued; what kind of rewards would you give the followers of the K's that you wouldn't give to the "3rd party"?

[danolt]

Civs definately do need to play a greater role but I'd rather see this come about through ency missions and their rewards.

I really don't see this as consistent with your normal all inclusive team style stance. You are suggesting that nation building should be done strictly by individuals doing solo missions.

I think it is safe to say you do not want the factions monopolizing or even leading the rebuilding effort. If you don't want the factions to rebuild and you want the nations to be rebuilt by default encyclopedia missions, how exactly should players be a part of the reconstruction effort?

As for Elias and his rangers last we heard from them:

"There are too many Kitin, they are everywhere, they never let up. Theyy have cut us from each other as we used to cut yubo from their packs while hunting when we were young. I hear a scream as another homin falls out in the dark but some few of us are still together here, barely holding them at bay. Elias' wound didn't heal properly and he became delirious, he insisted we press on even as it became clear it was hopeless. We followed him anyway. In the last battle he ran out into the roots, we have heard or seen nothing since. All seems lost. more Kitin are coming. Rangers, protect the homin. More are coming. "

[grimjim]

I understand you are a bit put out because you had something and you lost it. No one likes that. I understand you could see it as a penalty. If I give my child a piece of candy every day, and then suddenly I decide he has to clean his room before he gets his candy, he is going to be upset. Hopefully though, he will clean his room, get his candy, and we will both be happy. Or he will scream about it until I lock him in his room and ignore him.

Now imagine you have three children.

You suddenly stop giving the middle child candy - for no reason - but keep giving the other two candy.

Then you start making the middle child run around the block every morning before he gets his thin gruel from breakfast while the others are happily pigging away at their sugar-frosted milk without having to do anything.

Da kid has a legitimate beef and you're getting a call from child services.

[grimjim]

Let's say that, as a third faction, they involve the Trytonist in something (I don't know, some event) like the temple wars; and you, being as you are, left the Trytonist, and are again in noone's land.

Lets say they had made a more Trytonist possibility for the Temple War to explore this.

As it was you were forced to be Kami or Karavan and the only way to fight for a different side was to grind your fame the opposite direction and then re-enter the area. Only the K's had a defined role and the neutrals got thrown a bone with 'find balance'.

There wasn't a great deal of room to act independently and your existing fame meant you were pretty much forced to join one side or the other.

Now imagine Tryton had said 'Sabotage both efforts'.

Now you'd have three choices, three ways to play and more opportunity to wangle one of them into fitting your personal stance even if you don't agree with any of them - broader scope.

The Trytonist are so vage because the devs left the Neutrals apart time ago. If they take the Trytonist/rangers faction again, they'll define it a lot more; they will involve with the world in ways that will not like all neutrals; so, again, they could make a Trytonist faction, but...
...The devs need to make the life a little easier to the neutrals who don't want join a faction, so all the choices (even the lack of choice)are at even.

That's why you simply use it as a core. With a hominist cause the Trytonists have the motivation to provide assistance to all homin, regardless. So they provide the justification for the return of gameplay elements, since Tryton has power and knowledge, but they're also not monolithic like the K's, which leaves room for more self expression. It covers both bases.

[grimjim]

I'm intrigued; what kind of rewards would you give the followers of the K's that you wouldn't give to the "3rd party"?

Its more that they might be seperate and distinct, or on top of.

Similar to the solutions for different access to current PvP only conflict.

Mostly I'm thinking of culturally appropriate ency missions (providing design plans and powers and lore) and perhaps additional, more convenient TPs here and there that the neutrals don't get (but they still get access more areas).

This has the added advantage that you don't NEED to make many/any seperate ones for neutrals because if it is done on a sliding fame scale the neutrals can access the low level rites and info of both sides, but not the upper stuff. Their advantage - flexibility.

[grimjim]

I really don't see this as consistent with your normal all inclusive team style stance. You are suggesting that nation building should be done strictly by individuals doing solo missions.

Ah, misunderstood you I think.

The rebuilding has been completely pushed to the side, the only hint of it is in the OPs and they've been hijacked by war.

Yes, the civilisations should be rebuilding and playing a role more actively.

'Invade our lands kill our people and steal our resources? That's FINE! Come on in!' - doesn't really work for me either

But I think also they could use a bit more definition and differentiation.

"There are too many Kitin, they are everywhere, they never let up. Theyy have cut us from each other as we used to cut yubo from their packs while hunting when we were young. I hear a scream as another homin falls out in the dark but some few of us are still together here, barely holding them at bay. Elias' wound didn't heal properly and he became delirious, he insisted we press on even as it became clear it was hopeless. We followed him anyway. In the last battle he ran out into the roots, we have heard or seen nothing since. All seems lost. more Kitin are coming. Rangers, protect the homin. More are coming. "

So he's vanished into the roots. He isn't dead. So we don't know.

But then, how long have we been waiting for Jena now?

[mithur]

Now you'd have three choices, three ways to play and more opportunity to wangle one of them into fitting your personal stance even if you don't agree with any of them - broader scope.

Broather scope, yes. But it does not solve the matter. At first, I though that you want that all the people who doesn't chose a faction have some role, and similar odd than the factionate one, but now I see that you only want another faction who fits better into your views, ok.

So, why don't make five factions more? or ten? Damn, I want a faction who believes in "The bandit life", and go for all atys raping and robbing.

But, as I see, a sligh change in the mechanics and with a little efford adding new lore and some event, you can make that all the non-factionated ppl could be more confortable in the game, and I think that should be the objective: nobody outs. If you make the Tryton faction, will still be people out. If you simply makes life better for the non-factionated, then will no be people out.

And, btw, I think there are two differents matter here that we are mixin: the Trytonist faction and the non-factionated people. The fact that you'll join happily a Tryton Faction, Grinjim, doesn't means that everybody of the non-factionated will do the same.

PS: Put it all in one post, man. Is only a bit more of writing, and you write a lot, it shouldn't be a problem

[iwojimmy]

If TPs are given out to anyone, why bother joining a faction?

for PvP tags, apparently some people think they are the only reason to play online games.

[grimjim]

Broather scope, yes. But it does not solve the matter. At first, I though that you want that all the people who doesn't chose a faction have some role, and similar odd than the factionate one, but now I see that you only want another faction who fits better into your views, ok.

No, that's not it.
I don't just want a third faction that fits my views, I see the Trytonists as the best option to form a core of usability around which the neutrals of various stripes can act as appropriate for them.

And, btw, I think there are two differents matter here that we are mixin: the Trytonist faction and the non-factionated people. The fact that you'll join happily a Tryton Faction, Grinjim, doesn't means that everybody of the non-factionated will do the same.

You've got completely the wrong end of the stick. As things stand at present I wouldn't join a Trytonist faction, I just see Tryton as the best way to provide for neutral gameplay.

PS: Put it all in one post, man. Is only a bit more of writing, and you write a lot, it shouldn't be a problem

Anywhere else I post I would be upbraided for mixing replies into one post. Even on an unthreaded forum this helps keep the dispirate threads of conversation seperate.