Ryzom

jarko wrote:you can maybe think its easy to put it on teh tactics...but if you are iwth 25 kami, 20 run around, half of it in melee gear tothe enemy and everywhere basicly around the OP, and 5 have the brains to stand ON eachother, i mean really almost IN eachother character and bombheal/nuke...if all of those 25 would do the stand on eachother and bombheal while maybe 4 melee take care of the brainless kara melees who charge in to make a useless hit on ppl who get 20heals/second...we wouldnt whipe thats fast take it from me! We wouldnt win offc either, but we wouldnt whipe and thats a decent start!

That's been tried. Doesn't help against a greater mass of concentrated fire, just means everyone gets hit.

The melees only die because they get no support, and because they move too far ahead of the mage group which never moves up far enough.

In static defence, Kami can hold - a while. It's the attack that lets them down.

jarko wrote:We as Infinity where the strongest on atys as a guild, not due to our skills! we leveled alot and had power, but more we had tactics, we didnt whipe with a select team of 9 against double kara and an OP NPC team...ive been to 2 OP fights since im back,

A minor comment here, not aimed at a particular guild and specially not to Infinity, a dedicated and respected guild, and without doubt, skilled at PvP, knowledgeable of game mechanics and using that knowledge to improve their efficiency.

But all in all, it's this kind of assertions that I like to comment on. Guilds come and go, guilds have their ups and their downs. Guilds start, are strong, "own/rule", sometimes because they started earlier, they have a core of high level players and yes, they act as a team, but later they may loose in members, etc. As an example only, Infinity quit due to lack of challenges. Citizenz of Matis also became a "powerful" guild, but due to circumstances not anymore... and I could go on and on. OOTN was not specially a "powerful" guild (in a very restricted meaning of the term) e.g. a year ago, but now they are considerably large and have a huge impact on day to day.

Saying "we were the strongest" is misleading, and imho a bit of gloating. You were at a point in game, with a particular setting and a particular condition. Same as DCP was a powerful guild pre-merge, same as my former guild could be considered as "powerful" for the lack of a better world at some time (Atys Dragoons *shameless plug*) we had nice PvP fights, we even wiped Infi a few times --earlier in game, must admit--, but .. as things in MMRPGs, Dragoons no longer exist. Humbly, in my particular case, I do think that if at some point we were perceived as a serious guild, was simply because we started earlier, we knew the game, and we levelled realtively fast. We had a core of hardcore players and that meant that we could have high quality items, levels made a difference and so on. But, at some point, more and more players reach maturity skill-wise, they also master gameplay, they also have access to good equipment -- and that's good and natural --


It is in part the "gloating" that is turning me off of PvP. A collection of skilled players in a particular time can have a huge impact on the perceived dominance, but it ends there. Most of them state how they managed to beat opponents in adverse conditions -- sometimes even contradicting each other --

hopeing that Bri and the gang gets bored in SWG and RFonline and gets there lazy asses back ingame, but i doubt that wil happen in the first upcomming year.

I'd be glad to see them back in game, for several reasons, but being the PvP and balance aspect in the Faction conflcit aspect of the game only one of them. Maybe they'll be back, and maybe in the meantime and guild of dedicated players has reached a criticical mass of skilled players and can equal infinity in a PvP fight, it's natural in MMRPGs, or maybe they still hold the hill for a long while.

i tryed to make the ppl clear what to do, none listens...after 3 hours eacht time im now thinking of really giving it up and

In general, I see your point. One of the complains of several dedicated PvPers I hear most is the statement that "other" players cannot "play well". ("they don't heal", "everybody is nuking", etc.) While some may not use ventrillo, be less organized it is nevertheless a hard and dauting tast to organize a large group, and sometimes it is a matter of different playstyles. That said, I've heard similar complains in both sides of the K/K

For me atm, and you can say i give up to fast or im lazy or whatever, there is no point anymore in fighting for OPs if there are no results booked after 2 fights, we whiped 2 times in the same way but still none listens or does something :/ Ill be out of OP fights till some kami get brains, listen and maybe even come to my ventrilo server as i asked some already. no vent no wint it is atm!

While strategy and skills and coordinated efforts do have an impact, notably in team vs team, I still think numbers are the largest impacting factor, specially in large battles and as I mentioned earlier, since the mass of players is reaching cap level-wise and can meet their requirements. In other words, months ago, a powerleveler could differentiate himself (thanks to play hours) in terms of skills / levels / gear. With time, this differentiation wears off.
St

enough now whos next to throw his thoughts in?

Random thoughts thrown in

sad to see u wolfies but its ur dessision to do so
about the tactics thing yes tacticts pay a big part u can say but....
kara side is 2 to 1 adding the npcs will make it 3/1 and if u thing tacticts count then send a team of 3 karas pvp with 9 kamis
old lands/ matis arena u choose the place if u manage win the bows respectfully and to make it more intresting i pass u a gh full of 220+ supreme mats if not stop talking about tacticts anymore
they are important part of game yes but not when numbers are that outnumbered
letting players neutral healing the one pvp is the only tactic i ve seen at the last op fights when numbers were outnumbered
its true that karavans work better from the kami side but this has start changing and all kamis can see that
give up trying will definatelly not help to win
pvp u like it or not is part of the game at this point so those who play have to cope with that
as for the op wars its simple....
once kara were getting more and needed more recources they attack they had the numbers the got the resources
now kami side growns bigger too the starting having the numbers and they need more resources sharing their resources is not enough and they need more to grow up
recently there has been an increrase of the number of players that join because of the pvp part and they need resources to become stronger in order to participate on those events
and wether we like it or not cats give that opportunity
and the more u have the more u want simply as that
and as already wolfies point for his fellow kara team mates the resources are not balanced kami know and want and that will not change
therefore see u soon at battliefield kami and kara and hope next time we are more prepared from the last one

grimjim wrote:I'd agree the kami side lacks tactics - sometimes - and has a few headless wonders that don't listen and always go charging in, but I'm paid to fight, not to command.

And at some point the Karavan lacked tactics as well -- haven't ben lately unfortunately, can't comment on it--, and several players have their own (and contradicting) tactics, and as long as there is no "supreme Kami force commander" it can be hard to coordinate.

It really doesn't make that much difference in these instances though.

In tight situations it could, but I agree. Well, Ryzom PvP is not rocket science either, any player is capable of being efficient at it. Tactics affect, but same as weapons, amps, jewel resists, etc, etc.

The regular trouncings are, of course, hurting morale a great deal. The lack of crystals means people aren't training up so fast in order to be able to compete, the lack of OP equipment means less crit weapons, special mittens, boosted equipment and so on - a minor power difference, but one all the same.It all adds up.

Yes. And faction balance is imho an endemic issue here. To me this imbalance was fostered by the move to a simplistic duality. What could help a lot would be more complex conflicts, racial based, neutral based, with several groups with evolving and changing interests (to some point, as mercs do ) within an elaborated background.

To suggest that it is just tactics is rather facile.

I think so too.

I personally have been in 6 OP battles since I have arrived, out of them 4 were actual full scale battles, which contained reasonable number of people on both sides.

I can say with certain that Kamis usually have much better preparation than the karavan. We usually arrive 1 hour early to plan our teams and groups on outposts, regardless wether we are attacking or defending, while Karavan always arrive 10 mins before the battle starts, usually in small groups of 10-20 before they regroup at TP. At all of the battles I have never seen a better ratio of Kami:Kara than 1.5:1, that is at the height of the battle.

Doesn't take a genies to say that we have lost all 4 of those OP battles.

I wasn't ever rushed by my guild, I have always lvled on my own paste with my own lvls, at first it was merely the imbalance in the game in the first place that drove me to lvl faster than everyone else in order to make a difference, now I see there are not really much hope in turning the tide, it seems there are no point in carrying on. I know there are much more to the game than PvPing, but I have set out my goals, and since that goal is as far as ever...

blksheep wrote:give up trying will definatelly not help to win

indeed. and a few weeks playing is not enough for you to jump to such conclusions i think. The kami have been strong in the past, there is no reason they wont be again, it will just take some dedication and motivation.

to the OP, threads like this do nothing to help anyone, they just deepen the resentment and bad feeling some have. If you wanted to help you would be making bold speeches, organising PvP training, getting people interested and motivated to help you fight, not crying on forums o.o

Of course, one can point out that upping sticks and leaving isn't going to help the situation either. Staying on, continuing to train etc could still, eventually, swing a battle or two - in the end.

PvP isn't my thing but a common argument for it is 'for the challenge'.

If people on the underdog side are leaving because it's too challenging, and the victor squad isn't getting a challenge, then nobody's getting quite what they say they want, are they?

grimjim wrote: If people on the underdog side are leaving because it's too challenging, and the victor squad isn't getting a challenge, then nobody's getting quite what they say they want, are they?

Unless of course, hypothetically speaking, that the "challenge" needs further explanation meaning "the challenge, provided that on average most of the times I win, not 100%, of course, or not excessively easy to be considered a slaughter, but a challenge that lasts enough and makes me feel superior"

Just joking of course...

iphdrunk wrote:Just joking of course...

Many a true word spoken in jest

btw 50% of the kami left due to the crap being spoken in region by certain kara (me being 1 of them)

you guys ask for a good fight, we try to keep it clean and bring it to you and you guys make it as unfun as possible. I left to stop myself getting wound up and coming down to that level. Maybe you guys DO actually like to turn up for no-shows, that way you can sit in some far out region ***** to yourselves instead of involving us.

we intended to have a clean good fight, straight away you started to wind us up (well done DT and greenivy for the non tagged healing BS).

some of you kept it clean I admit. and I salute you