New Patch Notes

[anicolai]

Actually .. we looked at this lastnight. While you could get better items by making them from farmed mats .. they were only slightly better and that was using choice mats with good stats. This means that in order to sell anything under q60, the crafter will need to price the items the same as the NPC items. Otherwise people just wont pay it. Now take into account that the crafter will need to find choice mats, it just ends up not being worth it.

I disagree. NPC mats are garbage and noticeably worse than even fine or choice harvested or quartered mats. I made a magic amplifier using purchased mats and it had a 30% increased elemental attack speed and 30% increased elemental power. Using fine Beng and Hash amber I was able to get 60% and 60% in the same stats. The funny thing is that Beng and Hash amber even have low elemental bonuses when compared to Yubo and Cappy eyes but I couldn't find any 30+ eyes to make my level 30 amp.

Similarly, I had someone craft me a lance from purchased mats and it had less than half the damage of a same level lance made from high damage quartered mats.

The store-bought materials will only be viable for training crafters or for people who don't mind having a weapon or armor that is not even comparable to a harvested/quartered item half its quality level.

Glimmung

[svayvti]

I for one love these new mats. It allows me to do crafting missions in a reasonable amount of time comparable to a hunter doing a hunting mission. Previously before the patch, it often took me 4 hours to do one crafting mission.

and the fact that you destroy the purpose of 1/4 skillsets is totally irrelevant so long as it is easier for YOU right?

This type of thing is part of what is driving harvesters away. The new NPC merchants also destroy a good part of the market for the low level crafter. The store bought stuff really isn't that bad and is only minorly worse than choice crafted goods. Calculate in degrade rates and it isn't worth it.

Nevrax shouldn't have second-guessed themselves about this. I know a lot of people with the EQ mentality would like to destroy Crafters and Harvesters in this game, but it is a good part of what makes this game great (and not just an EQ clone).

Please consider what you want crafters and harvesters to be doing, and ask does this help Harvesters and Crafters play their role better or worse?

seems to me to be worse on both accounts.

[tleilaxu]

As a crafter I'm quit happy with the Q50 rawmats, thank you Nevrax! You've saved me a ton of click click clicking.

Harvesters hardly ever advertise mats for sale. Even if they did it would take a whole lot of harvesters to supply me with enough Q50 rawmats to level my crafting to keep up with the fighting classes especially since I make heavy armour.

As both a high level harvester/crafter (relatively speaking) the whole point of the harvester vs. crafter relationship is this: get me the good stuff so I can make something to sell. Harvested mats are far and above what is available with the raw mat vendors in towns. Degrade is an issue with weapons and *could* be reduced a bit. But otherwise I don't see anything wrong with the new Q50 raw mats available.

Why?

Simply because, what harvester would be willing to spend all day getting me 5 stacks of 99 pieces of Q50 wood bundles, 5 stacks of 88 pieces of Q50 resins, 5 x 77 Q50 oils, 60 Q50 saps just so I can level 1.5 levels when I'm at level 84? Would YOU be willing to do this? Would most harvesters? I think not. Higher Q mats allow a crafter to level faster yes. But then again, the danger factor must be taken into account, higher damage explosions, poisonous clouds, not to mention VERY aggro mobs in the areas a harvester must travel in order to get Q100+ mats. The Knoll of Dissent & Fleeting Garden are not very nice places to harvest if you don't have a patrol killing off agro.

So I ask again, why knock something that is only a gain for crafters everywhere, saving us hours of repetitive clicking? If you feel that harvesters should be improved somehow, i.e. pulling more mats, etc. Feel free to suggest that. Otherwise, leave us crafters our raw mat vendors. We love them. We NEEDED them. AND WE WON'T GIVE THEM UP. NEXT UP: GIVE US RAWMAT Q100!!!! Pretty please nevrax... PWEEEZ!!!!

[ayne31]

I am a dedicated crafter AND harvester too and for me the vendor bought q50 mats are important to do some missions in my hometown as farming for missions is tedious and difficult.

Why? Well, if I harvest choice i wouldnt use it on mission items but I dont intend to look for less then choice INTENTIONALLY for skills sake - so raw mat vendors are the only way for me so far to have at least some interaction with NPCs and raise fame.

I am not sure if Q100 mats would be a good idea too but I dont dare to predict how the economy will evolve once *player* merchants are introduced.

[jdomack]

this is the best way to kill a game.

Really I dont think harvesting is that bad rightnow. It just needs some tweeks to the QTY of Mats. What I think should be done is a QTY bonus based on the type. Basic mats would get a 2x mod so you would get twice what you get now. Fine would get 1.5x, choice remains the same while Exc get .80 and Sup .75

This makes it easier to get Mats to level crafting on but harder to get the really nice stuff you would make a finished product out of. It would also make basic worth harvesting.

This sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Right now you harvest the exact same amount of material for your time, no matter what the quality. In addition the amount of experience you get for harvesting choice/better mats is the same as basic mats... considering the game gives you xp for prospecting the mats, shouldn't it give you xp based on the quality of the mat, not just quantity and level?

Just my 2 cents

[jesder]

considering the game gives you xp for prospecting the mats, shouldn't it give you xp based on the quality of the mat, not just quantity and level?

It should .. but it doesnt and I guess that is ok .. changing the QTY and adjusting the XP bonus you get for harvesting more than one mat could actually make it worth it to level on.

Rightnow if I am leveling forage I will only pull one mat a time at a min quality where I max the exp gained (rightnow that is q110ish). I can sit there get qty2 if I wanted and that is using the lowest bricks I have to save on focus (aside from the ones effecting Q). The problem is that there is no real reason to do this since it will drain my focus and add downtime. At the same time I could go gather qty3-4 q50 mats and only get about 800xp. It just isnt worth harvesting qty unless you have a need for the mats.

Lastnight I could have gone out and harvest some q50 mats to sell to other players and maybe gained one level in my play time or I could get 1/4th the qty of q100+ and gain 4 levels...

[anicolai]

and the fact that you destroy the purpose of 1/4 skillsets is totally irrelevant so long as it is easier for YOU right?

This type of thing is part of what is driving harvesters away. The new NPC merchants also destroy a good part of the market for the low level crafter. The store bought stuff really isn't that bad and is only minorly worse than choice crafted goods. Calculate in degrade rates and it isn't worth it.

Nevrax shouldn't have second-guessed themselves about this. I know a lot of people with the EQ mentality would like to destroy Crafters and Harvesters in this game, but it is a good part of what makes this game great (and not just an EQ clone).

Please consider what you want crafters and harvesters to be doing, and ask does this help Harvesters and Crafters play their role better or worse?

seems to me to be worse on both accounts.

You must not have ever actually crafted and compared a basic and choice weapon of the same quality. There is a drastic difference, especially if you pay any attention to the specific features of each mat.

Last night I really needed a new pike and I wasn't patient enough to wait until I found all of the choice mats I needed. I ended up making it with a mix of fine and basic mats. I happily took my new pike out looking for a fight and was amazed at how slow it was and how low the damage was. I went back to foraging and came up with all choice mats, with the exception of fine grips, and remade my Q30 pike. The damage was 25 points higher but the most noticeable difference was the speed. I was swinging at least 50% faster with the mostly choice pike. I went back out and am now happily doing 172 damage a swing (with damage 3) on Moderate Kippee for 3000xp a piece. This was not possible with my mostly fine mat pike and would definitely not be possible with an all basic pike.

Tonight I will take screenshots of a 100% choice Q30 pike and a 100% Q30 basic pike, both in the crafting preview screen and in the completed product overview so we can put an end to the quality argument. I pity you if you are using all basic gear and think you are a viable fighter or mage in this game. The reason this game is unique is because it is about highly customizable skills and gear. If it isn't about gear to you then you are missing half the game.

Harvesters and Crafters will always have a place. I, for one, could not stand next to another player my level, using a weapon the same level as mine, with the same skills as me, and watch them get 30% more damage and swing 50% faster than me. My first question would be, "what is that weapon and where do I get one?"

Glimmung

[jesder]

I pity you if you are using all basic gear

Nah .. he has a good amount of crafters behind him and since he is a harvester .. what do you think his gear would be?

[tinpony]

You must not have ever actually crafted and compared a basic and choice weapon of the same quality. There is a drastic difference, especially if you pay any attention to the specific features of each mat.

Glimmung

I can agree with you. I'll even add all choice is not the same. Lots of people advertise 'all choice Item X for sale'. Depends *which* choice you use.

I made 2 50q swords last night, both all choice. I simply changed the blade/shaft mats. The first had a 118/118 hit and a bit faster than my old 46q sword. The second was a 154/154 and swings for almost as fast as my all choice 1 handed sword. Using increased damage 3, I can now hit for 288 points almost as fast as my one hander hits for 150 and about 50% faster than my all choice 2H used to hit for 225. I also know now what pieces I'll be using for my q60 and up swords.

I don't mind the vendors. I think it'll help crafters and people who are impatient. I certainly made good use of them when I cleaned out my packer mek and levelled my little heart out.

But they make crap gear. That's all there is to it. If you want some armour, you can spend 20K on the mats, or (hopefully) maybe the new vendor thing will also allow for mat to be sold, or some harvesters may simply turn into harvester/merchants.

I think as the game goes on, we'll see more interest in the mats from the buyer's side. Q50 choice is not always choice.

Tin.

[uncus]

I can understand why Nevrax added q50 items - the old q25 wasn't enough to keep non-crafters happy after coming from Nwbie Isle. However, this is going to hamper midlevel harvesters such as myself since the best I can pull right now is q50. Almost makes it a "why bother?" situation with harvesting - hard to justify doing it...

Please DO NOT add q100 mats - that would definitely kill harvesting as a profession!