Hominist Conference

[thosholm]

Just to shamelessly promote this again:

The 1st Hominist Conference

8:00pm UK time, Fairhaven Sunday October 2nd

[grimjim]

Bumping for attention, meet tonight.

[genod]

I wasn't there for the whole event; slinking off after the first 100 minutes of it. From that, I'd like to express a few things...

First, I didn't notice any in-game assistance from the guides/GMs on this one. No physical presence that I noticed during the event itself, but also no sign of the use of the MOTD or Atys-wide broadcasts. As far as I could tell, this was entirely player organised, and that you managed to generate such interest from amongst the players that this many attended must have been an encouraging sight to behold. At least if you pretend the Zorai never existed anyway

(also, in my time away I noticed respectable numbers wandering around Dyron and the Matis city areas, so it wasn't even like the whole of the Ryzom playerbase was there; asserting suggestions that the player population is dwindling. Maybe it is, but I'm saying it wasn't looking that way to me. Now if only I could goad a few more into region speak...)

There were problems though. In case my premature leaving didn't indicate otherwise, I had lost interest after over an hour of debate. I generally find sitting down in game, doing nothing but read the speech of other players quite testing. I feel I lack articulacy, so do not participate in such exchanges myself leaving me with little choice but to stick with it and twiddle my thumbs while inputting an occasional social action (usually nothing more than an emote). There were a lot of other quiet members amongst that large showing, probably just there to observe, but I wonder what they were thinking? Or if they were even thinking that much at all; perhaps chatting amongst guild or doing other things while waiting for the prompts to stand up. *shrugs* In the end, I heard the conference lasted about 2 1/2 hours? Was it intended to last that length? And maybe something should be done to break up such events so it isn't just an endless talk-fest?

I also think that, in hindsight, the standing/sitting method of casting votes wasn't such a great idea. There was still some confusion about what action meant which vote (something I thought this would solve instead of people's movement to different sides of the conference area) and the mass of bodies in close proximity, all of which could be standing or sitting next to each other, must have been confusing to count so I wonder how many of those motions passed could have gone either way?

So, kudos for making something of this weekend run-up to episode 2. It wasn't for me, but Sunday evenings are usually quiet periods for me anyway

[xenofur]

grim, your pm box is full

[grimjim]

First, I didn't notice any in-game assistance from the guides/GMs on this one. No physical presence that I noticed during the event itself, but also no sign of the use of the MOTD or Atys-wide broadcasts. As far as I could tell, this was entirely player organised, and that you managed to generate such interest from amongst the players that this many attended must have been an encouraging sight to behold. At least if you pretend the Zorai never existed anyway

It was a shame more Zorai didn't attend and that there were no guides in attendence. I had asked but they are still not offering either endorsement or MOTD messages.

I think this is a pity, and it cost me a fortune in TP tickets trying to get everywhere (and I didn't manage to get everyone). There is only so much you can do however.

I do think the lack (removal?) of guide support for player events has been quite damaging, we've certainly noticed it has meant lower attendence to our guild events.

Still, with all that against us we still managed, I think, around 60+ homins at the high point.

In the end, I heard the conference lasted about 2 1/2 hours? Was it intended to last that length? And maybe something should be done to break up such events so it isn't just an endless talk-fest?

You can never tell quite how long such things will last. The relative lack of stupidity and heckling going on was heartening and did make things move more swiftly. I do wish more people had gotten involved, I tried to make things as emotive and involving as I possibly could and some of the debates and relevent heckling were interesting. Breaking it up with other things/actions wouldn't have been necessarily appropriate I think and most people did seem to stick through it. For which I'm glad.

I also think that, in hindsight, the standing/sitting method of casting votes wasn't such a great idea. There was still some confusion about what action meant which vote (something I thought this would solve instead of people's movement to different sides of the conference area) and the mass of bodies in close proximity, all of which could be standing or sitting next to each other, must have been confusing to count so I wonder how many of those motions passed could have gone either way?

This was initially why I had proposed moving to my left or right for the voting, but I was voted down on that to a stand/sit, which was a bit quicker
I was very careful and did count on the close votes, we also had two recounts. I'm satisfied it was legitimate.

Thanks for attending!

[micrix]

OOC:

Still pondering where this is supposed to lead to.

On the one side this could be a pure RP event where Jyudas, tired of fighting for dappers, decides to be a politican. Well done in this case

On the other hand we probably looking into a ingame future where slavery and domination may become reality. Then grimjims actions where a quite elegant way to play such out.

Or maybe it was both

I missed real, even if completely OOC, conversation how to handle a possible future where our toons live in a FvF world. Where a digger not only watches for Kitin patrols but also for homin patrols of the other faction. Where your elemental cast ist 20-40% lower then those of the dominanting "faction". In such a world you bleed out to nothing. In the end you even dont have the dappers for a pick to dig yourself a basic LA.

Well, this is somehow a worst case scenario, but what if ?

[vguerin]

I do think the lack (removal?) of guide support for player events has been quite damaging, we've certainly noticed it has meant lower attendence to our guild events.

It seems the CSR team is more concerned lately with Yuboball (I counted more CSR than homins at the round I attended) and electing the biggest loser as "Homin of the event" for Gladiator tournaments... I am disappointed that they have become so huggy/kissy lately...

Still, with all that against us we still managed, I think, around 60+ homins at the high point.

Agreed the numbers were not low... but those that were standing or sitting on command and those that saw an agenda forming and went into the water (abstention) group grew as well.

You can never tell quite how long such things will last. The relative lack of stupidity and heckling going on was heartening and did make things move more swiftly.

Even those considered "Semi-RP" intend to have an impact on the goings on in Atys... as well as I feel you represent those that support you, I hope that you have seen clearly that there is an equal (and maybe greater) amount that wants the game to go where it is going. It's always easy to get like minded folks to attend these events, if you do not recognize how many non-believers attended that would be folly on your part.

This was initially why I had proposed moving to my left or right for the voting, but I was voted down on that to a stand/sit, which was a bit quicker
I was very careful and did count on the close votes, we also had two recounts. I'm satisfied it was legitimate.

The fact there were so many close votes should show that there is still too many mixed feelings for anyone to speak for anyone else. Typically these events draw like minded folks, how did we have close votes ?

Thanks for attending!

Thanks for having us... Though some homins anger me in their ignorance to Atyswide politics and events and want to be total tree-huggers (while using Karavan or Kami teleport tickets and respawns) we hope to protect them. I respect your genuine desire to follow your path. You will not change us from ours, but if we all remain open minded we will better understand each other.

[grimjim]

Agreed the numbers were not low... but those that were standing or sitting on command and those that saw an agenda forming and went into the water (abstention) group grew as well.

Well, of course there was an agenda forming. It was the Hominist Conference - rather implying a Hominist Agenda. Not the 'Atys knitting circle'
There were quite a number of observers anyway as well as people who were even more 'treehuggy' to the point where they objected to the RP guards. Not quite as clear cut as you seem to think.

Of course, if they really objected or didn't like the agenda they should have stayed where they were and remained seated to show that they didn't support what was going on. By removing themselves from the voting they allowed the others to ratify and expand the agenda.

Even those considered "Semi-RP" intend to have an impact on the goings on in Atys... as well as I feel you represent those that support you, I hope that you have seen clearly that there is an equal (and maybe greater) amount that wants the game to go where it is going.

No, I still see a far, far, far smaller amount (even less than the much quoted 20%) that really want things to slip and slide down the slope towards the 'pwners'. That's a seperate issue though.

To try and be abundantly clear on an OOC basis - I have zero objection to a well-handled and integrated-with-storyline conflict. I worry about the more 'open' PvP and much seems to be going in a direction not consistent with either lore OR the way the storyline seems to be moving.

A brief example on the 'mechanical' front - Outposts are very much Guild Vs Guild and most conflict over them will - most likely - occur between guilds of the same faction. At the same time the storyline is trying to push us into faction Vs faction conflict. This is contradictory!

A brief example on the lore front - All the people and the two factions came together in the PR after/during the Great Swarming, each of the homin leaders has overcome (some more than others) a more 'evil' predecessor or state of affairs and is presented as a more liberal-minded and reasonable successor. Yet so few years after that state of grace we're supposed to believe that they're ready to go to war at the drop of a hat with so little having happened to push them that way.

Its inconsistent.

It's always easy to get like minded folks to attend these events, if you do not recognize how many non-believers attended that would be folly on your part. The fact there were so many close votes should show that there is still too many mixed feelings for anyone to speak for anyone else. Typically these events draw like minded folks, how did we have close votes ?

This was the point some seemed to miss about having 'no abstentions'. The point of that was so that a positive vote was TRULY a positive vote and so that no objectionable resolutions would be passed. If people had ANY unease or uncertainty, if they could not back the statements and resolutions then they had to remain seated. This was done so that the positive votes were more meaningful.

The other reason for the close votes was, I think, that many Atysians seem to be entering their old age. ARthritic knees mean they can't stand up so quickly

In each recount the second count showed a much clearer majority.

Thanks for having us... Though some homins anger me in their ignorance to Atyswide politics and events and want to be total tree-huggers (while using Karavan or Kami teleport tickets and respawns) we hope to protect them. I respect your genuine desire to follow your path. You will not change us from ours, but if we all remain open minded we will better understand each other.

As I said at the event. 'One need no worship the great Sky Mektoub in order to ride one'. Familiarity breeds contempt and the Kami and Karavan help homin no matter how worshipful or blasphemous - hence the vote and objection to the slavers in part. The game doesn't really provide for a 'third way' mechanically yet, though many people would appreciate a third 'Tryton' faction.

[soulsnatcher]

Regarding CSR supporrt for player events. It was initially held back after a long period of complete support (at any hour) as some players were complaining of favourtism towards players who held these events. Obviously as some players like to try and do more player events than others some mistook the support for favourtism.

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't" it seems

[grimjim]

As I said at the event. 'One need no worship the great Sky Mektoub in order to ride one'. Familiarity breeds contempt and the Kami and Karavan help homin no matter how worshipful or blasphemous - hence the vote and objection to the slavers in part. The game doesn't really provide for a 'third way' mechanically yet, though many people would appreciate a third 'Tryton' faction.

I meant to add here that 'hominist' needn't mean Tryton follower - and that could be a drawback to forming a third faction.

It doesn't seem like there's room for a peaceful follower of the other factions or one that believes they can still live together in peace.

Complex social alignments don't tend to mesh well with absolutist game mechanics.