Catalyzers or other prizes ?

[xtarsia]

a-a-and... we have some korean bots with dappers for sell some dappers to RL-money... like lineage 2...

if that would be the case there would be Koreans selling raw mats to crafters allready

[arfindel]

We may keep telling players from morning to night that there is great Ryzom content if they explore, sneak and study the lore. It's about 1% of the players who enjoy that, the percentage may grow once they grow up a bit, get more dodge etc, but it's still low.

What remains for the rest is just levelling. One big problem is that almost nothing under master is useful to anything in their view. I know you can be very good without master, a lot of old skool players stand as living examples. But again, we cannot go against what a majority is feeling.
They think they aren't good for anything before master so they aren't.

The level system is extremely rigid. You cannot successfully hunt lower or higher than your level as long as you want some xp. And looted mats are almost useless. In other games you could hunt for less xp but be repayed in mats still preciouss, maybe not for yourself but for a master crafter.
You cannot hunt with the oldies and be together in effective guild teams. Only much later boss teams in guild can be efficient.

OP system forbids practically medium/low levels to even dream of them. Only politics may bring a new guild an OP, never fighting or skill.

RP is completely dead. There is anyway a minority enjoying it, but with or without this minority RP was chased out of the game.

There aren't any uses given by producers to the award winning story of the game. There isn't any story left alive in the game, full stop. When only 1% of player base cares about race/civ/guild history, this is dead.

Alliances make guild personalities more and more feeble. From low levels to masters people jump guilds at any small sign.

Game mechanics being rigid, you need team to level up (yeah we can repeat them you can level without, majority won't hear, let's take facts) - game population is too small to sustain a game mechanics that doesn't allow you to group but with exactly same levels in a range of 10-20.

Again I know you there have found fun in a lot of things I love too: exploring, sneaking, treking solo, crafting, digging, digging in hard conditions etc. I am not talking about you, you may be elite, you're not a majority.

Sounds like whinning, but I don't really have solutions as long as the producer doesn't want to put more money in it.

[twina]

We may keep telling players from morning to night that there is great Ryzom content if they explore, sneak and study the lore. It's about 1% of the players who enjoy that, the percentage may grow once they grow up a bit, get more dodge etc, but it's still low.

What remains for the rest is just levelling. One big problem is that almost nothing under master is useful to anything in their view. I know you can be very good without master, a lot of old skool players stand as living examples. But again, we cannot go against what a majority is feeling.
They think they aren't good for anything before master so they aren't.

The level system is extremely rigid. You cannot successfully hunt lower or higher than your level as long as you want some xp. And looted mats are almost useless. In other games you could hunt for less xp but be repayed in mats still preciouss, maybe not for yourself but for a master crafter.
You cannot hunt with the oldies and be together in effective guild teams. Only much later boss teams in guild can be efficient.

OP system forbids practically medium/low levels to even dream of them. Only politics may bring a new guild an OP, never fighting or skill.

RP is completely dead. There is anyway a minority enjoying it, but with or without this minority RP was chased out of the game.

There aren't any uses given by producers to the award winning story of the game. There isn't any story left alive in the game, full stop. When only 1% of player base cares about race/civ/guild history, this is dead.

Alliances make guild personalities more and more feeble. From low levels to masters people jump guilds at any small sign.

Game mechanics being rigid, you need team to level up (yeah we can repeat them you can level without, majority won't hear, let's take facts) - game population is too small to sustain a game mechanics that doesn't allow you to group but with exactly same levels in a range of 10-20.

Again I know you there have found fun in a lot of things I love too: exploring, sneaking, treking solo, crafting, digging, digging in hard conditions etc. I am not talking about you, you may be elite, you're not a majority.

Sounds like whinning, but I don't really have solutions as long as the producer doesn't want to put more money in it.

From what I see of ryzom I would be inclined to agree with you - it is a constructive post. You told me my opinion was completly wrong earlier - yet you are saying exactly the same as what i was saying - just with different words.

You say that the majority of people are not content with exploring - that they perceive leveling to be more important. This is due mainly to OP´s - as you say - it is designed for higher level players (although not impossible for lower levels - but harder) - another negative for OP´s. You state about alliances being a problem - this is once again mainly due to OP´s.

After leveling what is there - not much -apart from OP´s.

Exploration can begin for poeple (according to your opinion) after they reach high level - but you can only exlpore so much before you have found most things in any limited world.

You talk of the lack of story by the producers of the game.

You talk of game mechanics being rigid.

All this adds upto two things - lack of content added over long time periods and OP´s causing negative attitudes in-game and on forums.

Therefore, going by what you have posted as your last post - you have the same opinion as I do - although previously you stated I am completly wrong.

As I say - you have said the same things that I have opinionated in various posts on this thread - just in different words.

[blaah]

Sounds like whinning, but I don't really have solutions as long as the producer doesn't want to put more money in it.

well to fix solo hunt.... regen should be increased like ... a lot.. and if you taking damage then you dont regen for few sec (so that daggers/etc can still kill something). mobs regen too and KT regen too (like, sit down and in 10 sec, you have your 3k hp again). .. but if n00bs do get to high level and see that theres nothing left they leave anyway, so is it wise to hire devs to make that change ? (silence from other thread says theres no-one left)

[arfindel]

No, I only stated you are wrong saying old players are leaving the game for the rest we agree with differences of detail.

I "jumped" upon the idea oldies are leaving because:
1. I heard it before and I belive that grumpy (as I was in my post, sorry) or more light hearted oldies are not a big problem for the game, newbies and medium levels (lvl 100 to first master) are.
2. Because if some oldies are leaving that's a normal evolution of all games. There is no company able to keep all oldies in game interested. The content has to finish at some time, some people leave after doing a list of things. Ryzom's situation is not normal. We are losing player base on the levels that should be most interested in the game.
3. Because probably I am hurt by these facts myself: I lost some very good old firends but in between I lost _tens_ of new players we have coached and invested loads in them, don't think about cats and gear, think about hours of talking, explaining, getting close, that makes the game very tiring, you get attached to some people, you spend with them every evening some hours, and poof they gone, ok next round, get closer, start to care about them, poof gone, aso. If there is a part I hate about Ryzom is this fluidity of player base.

On a lighter note I can say GF is doing a good job advertising the game (or he game is advertising itself, or no other company has developped something as good, dunno), Silan has a constant steady flux of newbies, from the l33t ones to the great people we each love to meet. The game problem is keeping them.

[twina]

Well if it´s any help - I am bringing an old old friend to Ryzom and also my girlfriend - and believe me, I dont like her spending my money - but I cant wait for her to join us all

[iceaxe68]

This thread has drifted away a bit from the original thought, but it has some good discussion points.

We've beaten the dead mektoub to a pulp on the subject of "need new content" so let's leave that one lying in its pool of dried sap for the moment.

Also, we can conclude that GF will not be making any drastic changes to the OP/cat system any time "Real Soon Now"(tm).

However, the questions of "who really leaves the game" and "why do they really leave" are of great interest to me personally. I wish we could do an exit interview for everyone who disappears.

I think we can categorize some "normal" turnover that would be found anywhere:

1. People try the game out, and find it just doesn't suit their tastes.
2. People try it and like it, but don't have the time to spend on it.
3. People play for many months, then develop other interests
4. People play for many months, do everything they wanted to do, then move on
5. People develop an unhealthy addiction and have to leave to recover their personal life and health

Probably most of the day-to-day loss of players falls into these categories.

Now - what about some "not normal" causes:

1. People try the game, like it, but can't find anyone to team with and grow frustrated
2. People play the game for a long time then get upset about a change
3. People play the game for a long time then get upset about lack of change
4. People get upset with other players
5. People feel like they can't participate without grinding for weeks or months first, and if they can't get ahead fast they quit

OK, there are doubtless hudreds of other reasons. The only ones I could think of that directly involve cats are #2 and #5.

Given the assumption that players who haven't left want this thing to persist a while longer, what can be done? And, equally important, what should be done? (Also, what blatantly obvious reasoning has my feeble brain missed?)

As players, there are things we can do directly, and things for which we must pray to the dev team for a blessing.

Things we can do directly might include:

• Player created content to excite and interest veterans
• Individual and group effort to maintain a pleasant and rewarding environment
• Serious personal effort to help new players find their "happy place" on Atys

And again, a thousand other things I haven't thought of (yet).

personal notes:

There are things I would like to see for my own selfish benefit.

Tops would be heavy recruitment of players in Alaska/Siberia/East Asia/Pacific Islands so that I have someone around when I'm up until 3 am on a work/school night...

cats:
I started on a 12 step program to rid my system of the ill effects of experience catalyzers. So far so good, haven't backslid yet even though the things are no farther than a trip to the GH. Temptation though... last night took an entire two hour duo-najab-hunting session to get from 216 to 217 in 2h axe. But I guess if I wanted to get serious about it I could grind 8 hours a day and be at 250 in a week or two. Except I don't actually have an extra 6 hours a day, even if I gave up sleep altogether. So I guess I have to either resign myself to that first master still being months in the future, or find some good plod or shalah hunts to join. Except that my play hours don't offer many such opportunities, see my first wish above...

OK, enough whining about me. I'm not leaving, so who cares...

I think we (the players) need to do some serious thinking about a player-retention effort. New players and old alike.

I've been very excited to see all the player-created events lately. Although most were designed pretty heavily around veteran level players, and I don't really fall into that category yet.

GF has been putting some nice effort into Silan events, too. I hope some good homins stick with us, and the new player community grows.

OK, I guess that's enough rambling from Sasi for a while. Thanks for reading (assuming anyone still is).

[kekulus]

*Guts Fijoo*

*Rescues Homins from Fijoo's belly*

"Wow! Welcome back homins! This is WAY better than dead beastie mats!"

*Scuttles off in search of more beasties with extraordinarily large bellies...*

[akovylin]

Well if you are particpating in OP battles and never receice cats, then you need to be asking why the Kami Alliance is not helping you out - as after all you are a Kami disciple. Perhaps you have not asked for any and they are not aware of your circumstances?

We are talking about game mechanics not alliances. I don't find that if game mechanics broken its our but not gameforge's (nevrax) responsibility to change and fix it. I want my ingame activities to bring me joy exp resources mats items prizes and whatever else, not my relationships outside the game.

[akovylin]

No, I only stated you are wrong saying old players are leaving the game for the rest we agree with differences of detail.

I "jumped" upon the idea oldies are leaving because:
1. I heard it before and I belive that grumpy (as I was in my post, sorry) or more light hearted oldies are not a big problem for the game, newbies and medium levels (lvl 100 to first master) are.
2. Because if some oldies are leaving that's a normal evolution of all games. There is no company able to keep all oldies in game interested. The content has to finish at some time, some people leave after doing a list of things. Ryzom's situation is not normal. We are losing player base on the levels that should be most interested in the game.
3. Because probably I am hurt by these facts myself: I lost some very good old firends but in between I lost _tens_ of new players we have coached and invested loads in them, don't think about cats and gear, think about hours of talking, explaining, getting close, that makes the game very tiring, you get attached to some people, you spend with them every evening some hours, and poof they gone, ok next round, get closer, start to care about them, poof gone, aso. If there is a part I hate about Ryzom is this fluidity of player base.

On a lighter note I can say GF is doing a good job advertising the game (or he game is advertising itself, or no other company has developped something as good, dunno), Silan has a constant steady flux of newbies, from the l33t ones to the great people we each love to meet. The game problem is keeping them.

IMHO silan and mainland are too different and remembering me i can say that most of ppl will leave game cause of these changes. And most of new ppl we had in guild left after arriving to mainland (but before they were so excited with game - game on sylan). Other ppl who will like mainland coming to sylan see things they don;t like and leave immidiatly. So broken game design leads to loss of players.