A Possible Third Group (Faction ?)

[sx4rlet]

To Danolt, Mrshad, Mithur;

now that is constructive thinking! Thanks for taking the challenge.

Now... who's next?

[grimjim]

When do you stop creating groups/factional benefits, why add just one?

That's why you create a catchall. The Kami/Karavan would then better represent the extremes while people who don't want to buy into it (for RP or other reasons) wouldn't have to without sacrificing their game experience so totally.

How does a third equal factional power fit in the story? In other words, where are the scientist, scholars and sages that will support, maintain and develop and teach new tech and powers and where did they come from?

As previously covered, Tryton and the Guild of Elias would provide the core and the justification for game functionality (TPs etc). Still existing game lore support points to Tryton, the formerly existing Force of Fraternity, former closeness between all the nations, the alliance against the Kitin, the time spent together in the PR refugee camps and more.

The whole infrastructure of lore and everything you mention is (or was) already there. That's what many of us built on and picked up on and were excited by when we came to Ryzom. Its a damn shame so many have gone due to what we consider poor decisions and support for what was the most popular and largest segment of the Ryzom population previously.

Why would the K's allow it to grow into a rival/threat when they could easily and instantly smash them?

Tryton's group - and the rangers - still exist. The motivations of the K's aren't always transparent but one could easily imagine a scenario where they tolerate it since it takes pressure off them having to deal with the Kitin so they have more resources to squabble with instead.

Also remember we're not necessarily talking about a single cohesive faction and that the ability of neutrals to move about, trade and act as diplomats actually, potentially HELPS both factions.

What concerns me is selling out the game in order to appease a subset of players.

Please listen to me when I tell you that for us, this has already happened. 'our' game has been sold out from under us to appease the PvP/Acheiver/raid subset, driving off large numbers of the RP/Community/PvE player 'of old' and IMO contributing considerably to Nevrax's eventual collapse through failure to react and adapt to what their playerbase _were_ enjoying.

This needn't have been a problem but every time an advance in one area has been to the detriment of others. Even R2 a) didn't have hosting and b) didn't have the capability to make PvP arenas for the other subset of players. While it's a great thing a) cripples its usefulness and b) meant it was just the same mistake in reverse.

SOoooooo, Instead of adding a third faction I would recommend using the 4 subsets that already exist. I would like to see the nations be able to expand. Do something like the temple event for the capital cities that would create a benefit for the citizens of that city.

Civs definately do need to play a greater role but I'd rather see this come about through ency missions and their rewards.

[grimjim]

If TPs are given out to anyone, why bother joining a faction?

Lore, roleplay, because you agree with their stated aims in game - all the reasons people still joined factions before material benefits. Plus there's the reward items, sides to chose from in certain events and, hopefully, more ency missions eventually.

The third group, whatever they turn out to be, needn't get the same or as many benefits as the factioned groups but still needs to be viable to play and enjoy.

[grimjim]

I think that make a trytonist faction or similar will solve nothing; then, those who don't join that faction will call himself true neutrals, and call the others traitors, and things like that.

I think that the trick is make more easy the life for those who don't want join a factions; as easy as that.

And lore justifications are easy to be found. I.e., the rangers negotiating with the Ks to free some PR tp to everybody, easy and in lore.

The Trytonist movement is, itself, loose and vague enough that it can provide the reasoning behind giving neutrals access to the full scope of the game without necessarily being Trytonist.

So long as everyone's able to play to the full value of the game the rest can pretty much handle itself.

[mrshad]

Lore, roleplay, because you agree with their stated aims in game - all the reasons people still joined factions before material benefits. Plus there's the reward items, sides to chose from in certain events and, hopefully, more ency missions eventually.

Lore, RP and all that work great for me, but then, I am a role-player and I dig that sort of stuff.

You are asking for a catchall, which really would get all (or most anyway). Most of the players are not really roleplayers. Sad, perhaps, but true. The vast array of reasons people play MMOs are best covered on another thread, but RP is low on the list.

Most of us do not want to be associated with an extremist group. We like to think we are rational and incluisive. So, unless we are given a big incentive to divide (like splititng into teams to play basket ball, or choosing sides in the temple war) we would really rather that we all play nice together.

Bottom line, unless we are bribed, or forced, to choose a side, we won't. If a 3rd faction that is all about homin unity against the kitin threat (things that everyone agrees with) comes out that can offer convienent movement around Atys, everyone will rush to sign up. There will be no more factions (and perhaps that is exaclty what you are after).

I think Atys would be poorer for such a move.
I think we need even more incentive to join one of the Ks.
The whole Saga of Ryzom is growing a bit stale, it needs to move forward in some significant way.

[grimjim]

You are asking for a catchall, which really would get all (or most anyway). Most of the players are not really roleplayers. Sad, perhaps, but true. The vast array of reasons people play MMOs are best covered on another thread, but RP is low on the list.

Relative to other MMOs Ryzom has(had perhaps) the most condusive RP environment and has the best RP tool (the Ring) on the market. After initial launch it attracted a large number of RPers and this is still reflected in the accepting attitude to RP present today. The German and French communities are even more pro RP so far as I can make out with my limited language skills.

This is part of what made Ryzom distinct and was reflected in player events and good RP all around.

That's being lost a bit.

Roleplayers may not be as numerous but they bring a world to life and they kept this game going for around a year, plus they tend to be loyal unless, as has happened, they don't get catered to at all and people start forcing them into boxes.

Bottom line, unless we are bribed, or forced, to choose a side, we won't. If a 3rd faction that is all about homin unity against the kitin threat (things that everyone agrees with) comes out that can offer convienent movement around Atys, everyone will rush to sign up. There will be no more factions (and perhaps that is exaclty what you are after).

The trouble with that is that nobody wants to be told what to do either. The crude attempts to force people to participate in a playstyle they don't like and to join a faction when they don't want to has had one of three effects.

1. They give in and join a faction (a minority).
2. They join a faction just for the TPs (This'll look like it's having the desired effect on a dbase output, but in reality in the game, it hasn't).
3. They leave, p'ed off.

I'd put 1 at about 10% of those effected since the temple war and 2 and 3 about evenly splitting the remainder.

I think Atys would be poorer for such a move.
I think we need even more incentive to join one of the Ks.
The whole Saga of Ryzom is growing a bit stale, it needs to move forward in some significant way.

Forcing people isn't the way, you'll just shed more players and harm the game. Atys is richer for its diversity. Let people play how they want and then make them choose how to act in relation to things that happen in game, don't dictate their choices for them, its far less interesting.

Incentive is one thing, forcing is quite another, encourage people to join, don't penalise them for not joining.

[0balgus0]

Please listen to me when I tell you that for us, this has already happened. 'our' game has been sold out from under us to appease the PvP/Acheiver/raid subset, driving off large numbers of the RP/Community/PvE player 'of old' and IMO contributing considerably to Nevrax's eventual collapse through failure to react and adapt to what their playerbase _were_ enjoying.

I thought the game failed because there's no dancer or entertainer class?

(sorry, couldn't resist. Anyone who read that post will know which one I'm talking about. Cracks me up.)

Back on topic, carry on.

[grimjim]

I thought the game failed because there's no dancer or entertainer class?

(sorry, couldn't resist. Anyone who read that post will know which one I'm talking about. Cracks me up.)

Back on topic, carry on.

Hehehhehehe

Yeah, but not really comparable to what I'm talking about.

I think dance obsessives are a finer sliver of the gamer pie than what I'm talking about

[mrshad]

Incentive is one thing, forcing is quite another, encourage people to join, don't penalise them for not joining.

Which is why, I think, the factions are currently popular, and the temple wars really were not. If we wanted to play in EP2 we HAD to choose a side. If we want to play the game from day to day, choosing a side is an option.

I understand you are a bit put out because you had something and you lost it. No one likes that. I understand you could see it as a penalty. If I give my child a piece of candy every day, and then suddenly I decide he has to clean his room before he gets his candy, he is going to be upset. Hopefully though, he will clean his room, get his candy, and we will both be happy. Or he will scream about it until I lock him in his room and ignore him.

The thing is, the access to high level TPs were never an entitlement. They were a discresionary reward from the higher powers. At first they were given out liberally, given to all who were willing to pay the dapper; and then the higher powers required a greater commitment for the reward. This isn't meant to punish the unbelivers, it is still meant as a reward to those who are willing to do as the Higher Powers ask.

[mithur]

The Trytonist movement is, itself, loose and vague enough that it can provide the reasoning behind giving neutrals access to the full scope of the game without necessarily being Trytonist.

So long as everyone's able to play to the full value of the game the rest can pretty much handle itself.

Are you saying this? xD Think a bit in yourself, please

Let's say that, as a third faction, they involve the Trytonist in something (I don't know, some event) like the temple wars; and you, being as you are, left the Trytonist, and are again in noone's land.

The Trytonist are so vage because the devs left the Neutrals apart time ago. If they take the Trytonist/rangers faction again, they'll define it a lot more; they will involve with the world in ways that will not like all neutrals; so, again, they could make a Trytonist faction, but...
...The devs need to make the life a little easier to the neutrals who don't want join a faction, so all the choices (even the lack of choice)are at even.

And them, fine if they add a Trytonist faction; more fun!

BTW, mrshad, there will be always rewards, RP and not-RP for those who join the Ks. The TPs aren't the only reward. Friends, conflict, they are bigger bands, and, even the not RPers love the background, and lo be in the faction of that cute furry bigeyed devils or in the faction with that c00l tech aspect. And there are other possible rewards, like Karavaneer tunics plan (And the equivalent for kamist) that only can wear belonging to the faction. I don't understand because there aren't faction items for members of the faction only...