Ryzom

hans1976 wrote:Oudknoei, you keep speaking of us and we. Are you the guildleader for OmegaV or are you in any other way assigned as a spokeshomin?

(entirely IC as was my previous post)

I really don't understand your point here. No one ever mentioned OV (myself or the original post). So, no, I'm not attempting to speak for them. When I say us (in direct reference to being a tryker), I'm referring to my own personal tryker pride and a strong desire to avoid seeing our people divided.

The comment I was directly responding to was clearly (IMO) an attempt to divide the tryker so the Kami can be stronger. (There's 2 ways for a group to be "stronger". One is to build itself up and the other is to knock the other down.) Yes, it was made to appear like the author cared deeply for our "independence", but my experience is that Infinity represents a strong Kami viewpoint first and foremost. They're interests are not our interests.

Even thought I was responding to what Morgaine said, I have no desire to convince a kamist that they are wrong. Losing battle.

But I wanted to remind my tryker brothers and sisters of the reality of the situation. The Matis are our allies; the Karavan are our allies. We've long been taught by our elders not to trust the kamists. If we do not stand together with our allies, then we will be divided. If we are divided, we will end up enslaved again.

Sorry if that doesn't represent your opinion of the world, but it's the reality of the world we find ourselves in. War is coming. Don't blame that on the Matis; we are all the puppets of powers greater than our own. If we allow kamists to divide us, then we will get overrun.

oldmess wrote:I really don't understand your point here. No one ever mentioned OV (myself or the original post).

Yes, my bad for mixing up two guildnames. I will edit the first post.

And about everyone else complaining I should not tell them to keep silent for they practise free speech, remember that this is an argument that bites it's own tail.

Just that it seems the question to homins all around not to speak like they can speak on my behalf is a tad too much to ask. I cannot change you, so I will change me. Hereby I declare nobody can ever speak on my behalf, nobody but me will express my views, nobody but me can say something that will entitle me to an opinion, faction or race.

So next time you read desire to say anything about Tryker, Kami/Karavan, Neutrals or whatever any homin could be associated with, remember to ask the individuals if they agree or disagree before going down the slippery path of generalisation.

OOC
@Rushin about IC: me too. Remember the RP thread in this forum, that RP is not about speaking like a Shakespearian reject?

katriell wrote:The Order of the Dragonblades has nothing but good will towards the Trykers. We are a multiracial guild and have Trykers among our ranks. We have also been giving out Elevation Crystals freely to any in need of them in Liberty Lake.

We have the utmost respect for the Tryker ideals of liberty and equality.

I can attest to the Dragonblades generosity.* It is a sad day when the Trykers have to look to the Matis to learn charity to their fellow homins. I was called a blackmailer yet again yesterday for suggesting that a guild donate to the outpostless. Let me be clear, if I say outpostless, I mean all outpostless homins, from Anissa to Veni Vidi Vici (couldn't think of an outpostless Z). To my mind, legitimate ownership is derived from elections, rotation of outposts to others and/or sharing with the outpostless. Jyudas called me a short Matis yesterday also. Perhaps it was apt, because I see these virtues more evident in the Karavan Matis allliance than in the Lakeland Trykers (excepting the Ballistic Mystix). To me it feels like Atysians were randomly assigned to be jailors and prisoners, with the jailors at once lording it over the prisoners and justifying their privileges; the prisoners digging hard, fuming or switching sides. I bought some crystals from Kyerna yesterday (because she is too cute to stay mad at) but my hand hovers over them, unable to touch them. Have outpost drills dug the joy out of Atys and now are digging up only greed?

I speak only for myself. Sorry Pero, if I have failed to tow the guild line. Pero is the leader of Aedan Artisans and sets the guild policies, I am but a member. Sometimes I feel that I should quit just to protect my guildmates from the toxic reputation among the new aristocracy of my thoughts on democracy and sharing resources.

*AA received 5 or 6 q50 crystals from OotD

oldmess wrote:But I wanted to remind my tryker brothers and sisters of the reality of the situation. The Matis are our allies; the Karavan are our allies. We've long been taught by our elders not to trust the kamists. If we do not stand together with our allies, then we will be divided. If we are divided, we will end up enslaved again.

It is clear to me that you and i have very different views on your freedom.

I personally think you have been lead to believe that you are standing side by side with the matis, when really it is clear that the guilds of matis are running both lands.

The reality of the situation is that the Matis have recruited most of the trykers and then remaining tryker guilds are more divided than ever. This has lead to a collection of large matisian guilds throwing their weight around the lakelands.

riveit wrote:It is a sad day when the Trykers have to look to the Matis to learn charity to their fellow homins. I was called a blackmailer yet again yesterday for suggesting that a guild donate to the outpostless. [snip] I bought some crystals from Kyerna yesterday

I too find it sad that the once united and friendly Trykers are reduced to buying crystals from people who they once called "friend", when the karavan guilds freely share with all who follow Jena's path...

It surprises me that someone uses the term "short Matis" as derogatory when most Karavaneers' actions of generosity speak far louder than any words coming from Kamists or so-called Neutrals

I think both sides are probably equally generous with OP rewards.

We just dont know that the opposition are doing it too because we dont come into contact with them regularly

alibasil wrote:I think both sides are probably equally generous with OP rewards.

I would have hoped this was the case, but sadly I only ever seem to hear of guilds having to buy things from Kamists or Neutrals (mainly "neutrals")

Sure, some guilds have to make a living... but you reap what you sow right?

alibasil wrote:I personally think you have been lead to believe that you are standing side by side with the matis, when really it is clear that the guilds of matis are running both lands.

We shall have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid. I am not slave nor puppet of a Matisian guild. I am an equal amongst friends and allies. You do not know how I am treated or respected.

The reality of the situation is that the Matis have recruited most of the trykers and then remaining tryker guilds are more divided than ever. This has lead to a collection of large matisian guilds throwing their weight around the lakelands.

Again, to me, this smells of an attempt to divide us by making us question the motives of our allies. I reject this. I am a partner in my guild and have been treated as an equal by the other guilds I've worked with.

You are welcome to your opinion, of course. But, I suspect your motives are based on more of an attempt to strengthen your own position than a concern for ours. Maybe you see your motives as purely unselfish? I don't know for sure, but I have my suspicions.

My motives are this: I am Tryker. I do not wish to see us overrun by anyone. I love our freedom and will do everything I can to defend that. But freedom must be defended.

I see war coming. We all see it coming, but some like to pretend it isn't. I would love to stop it, but we are well past that point. We are left with 3 simple choices:

1. Stand with our friends and allies
2. Stand with those that we've been taught our entire lives are not to be trusted.
3. Sit quietly while the war rages around us and watch our friends fall because they did not have our strength.

My honor dictates that the first is the choice I will make. I call on my brothers and sisters to think about this long and hard and make their choice as well.

hans1976 wrote:Just that it seems the question to homins all around not to speak like they can speak on my behalf is a tad too much to ask. I cannot change you, so I will change me. Hereby I declare nobody can ever speak on my behalf, nobody but me will express my views, nobody but me can say something that will entitle me to an opinion, faction or race.

So next time you read desire to say anything about Tryker, Kami/Karavan, Neutrals or whatever any homin could be associated with, remember to ask the individuals if they agree or disagree before going down the slippery path of generalisation.

If I read you correctly, I'm no longer allowed to use the word "we" in any context unless I've taken a vote? You are reading more into the word "we" than is intended.

But out of respect for you, I shall attempt state my opinions more clearly as mine. But, since my opinion is that Tryker unity with the Matis is key to our ability to not only survive, but also to live the kind of lives we enjoy.... well, the word "we" might creep in from time to time.

To those kamists drumbeaters that believe the karavan equates to slavery you are simply wrong, it was the earnest faith the trykers had in Jena and the Karavan that lead to:

"The Karavan does not advocate slavery, on the contrary. Let us remember that it is the goddess Jena who in ancient times ordered the Matis to release Trykers from their subjection."

The only ones that do activly seek to claim the karavan are to enslave all, are the kami, whose intent under the premise of balance seek to dictate homin life, restict homin progress and leave homins in a state of perpetual stuggle merely to survive on Atys. To me that is an existance abhorrant to my desires and freedoms and i will not be tricked by peddled words of spurious enlightenment and balance in the evidence of blatant tyrannical behavior and exploitation.

As to the tryker nation what serves the tryker identity and people as a whole is what is best, in these turbulant times and greater conflict to come. Should the power that outposts provide reside:
-In the hands of any? thus supporting base ideals as a cost of security and unity in the face of war.
-In only tryker guild hands? preserving tryker identity and nation at a cost of security in the war leading to split nation by faith and faithless.
-In karavan only guilds hands? compromising tryker identity, but providing a strength of unity in the face of war to a greater freedom for all Atys.

To those that seek wisdom in the faiths from the perspective of a tryker then read the tale of the Governor Wyler.