Its a Karavan's World, Too bad Im not planning be part of it.

[vguerin]

Interesting. This has the stench of an exploitable game mechanic. In the words of a quote from ID's game Doom, "It stinks like rotten meat."

I just hope Nevrax are planning somthing to prevent R2 becoming free XP cats for all.

They are rewarding people for making the content they have not. While your playing in new player made maps, you forget that since EP2 we have seen zilch happen in this game. Very good way to cover up to at least the portion of the community that will be involed in R2, the rest of us will get no cats for playing the real game.

[blaah]

Was it then confirmed for accuracy and completeness by an independent individual? I doubt it, so chuck it. Can't rely on data gathered in such a sloppy manner.

you my friend, make me laugh. you talking about matter that you clearly do not know nothing about.

go ingame and type /who just after you type /chatLog

[riveit]

I deeply hope that no one is hurt or unhappy with this listing. But having been stung by that criticism, I rechecked my lists, asked around and came up with the following numbers:

49 Defenders:
Aajolea
Adelpha
Aphodine
Choson
Ciridemarr
Cottonmouth
Crysanie
Doubletap
Erekittykitty
Exisstenz
Faldari
Gillayne
Greenivy
Jamela
Jayce
Jehlia
Jironda
Jocker
Kimmerin
Kisaa
Kiwi
Lexs
Lexsi
Lyranna
Maei
Mardock
Moonbabe
Numaa
Porthos
Posmo
Psych
Puhh
Ratara
Rder
Rhyanna
Riveit
Rocci
Rundll
Sehraci
Simone
Skullz
Starstriker
Sunew
Tboy
Uberdoyle
Ulgar
Wiimas
Xxanderx
Zazzy

45 Attackers:
Abulafia
Baffos
Beepe
Cecil
Clough
Donaskmi
Erbauer
Faa
Ffionnys
Gamic
Garheen
Gloife
Gurthgor
Himiko
Hunterx
Itsmagic
Jaawa
Jackoba
Keiko
Ketelone
Lexius
Logar
Mijom
Nookie
Odysafinal
Orlando
Pythios
Redslayer
Ryz
Skyl
Srecko
Teddy
Tigercha
Trygaan
Turaith
Tyilin
Wave
Wolfies
Wombat
Xeraphim
Xingwei
Xol
Yoshi
Zahan

Trog

Non-combatant:
Kirie

Unknown: (but one Kara)
Shipleyy
Cadiathiel


Or possibly some of these people were just hunting and digging in GoU, though that doesnt seem too likely. Also, any /who list is just a snapshot in time, homins come and go, some attendees were certainly missed.

So show me where I am wrong. Or the large imbalance that you perceived, was mainly due to the extra squads of guards on the defenders side.

Edited with later info including adding 2 to each side from another count:

Final count :

52 defenders v 49 attackers (+1 unknown)

[d29565]

But, it's so inaccurate, because it doesn't take into effect the amount of Kami leaving due to the 'junk' in region (I know of quite a few that left). It doesnt take into account the karavan that came after that little /who either.

Also, Orlando was neutral and you have him listed as attacking. Just so your list is "right."

[blaah]

But, it's so inaccurate, because it doesn't take into effect the amount of Kami leaving due to the 'junk' in region (I know of quite a few that left). It doesnt take into account the karavan that came after that little /who either.

i say it again with different words...

take that big list and remove every person with "+" in front of them in second list and you get ppl who were _in_regon_ in first kara wipe (/who was used just before You shouted inc).

take that big list again and remove every person with "-" in front of them in second list and you get ppl who were _in region_ after 1hour and 7 min from first guard pop.

we all know how much love GoU gets when there is no OP battle, so 99% of those ppl were around OP at that time.

[totnkopf]

we all know how much love GoU gets when there is no OP battle, so 99% of those ppl were around OP at that time.

am I mistaken in thinking that Kipee Mull is in GoU? one of the best areas to do under 200 digging and where many go to level from 80ish to 140ish. That region sees a large amount of traffic, so 99% seems very high.
I take it you're not a big jungle dweller?

[blaah]

am I mistaken in thinking that Kipee Mull is in GoU? one of the best areas to do under 200 digging and where many go to level from 80ish to 140ish. That region sees a large amount of traffic, so 99% seems very high.
I take it you're not a big jungle dweller?

yes and no. it was best thing ever but all changed when they made it hard to get place for neutrals (HoP and void is easyer than Kipee Mull).

so, take 10% off (around 10 ppl), 20% or even 50%, but be careful, numbers counted and posted by kami player gives 107.

2 /who was taken from the turning point's. one just before kara attacked (10 min _before_ guards) and second just when it was clear that kami were leaving (1hour 7min _after_ guards).

2 lists were combined into one big and posted here, i also posted +/- list, so it's possible to make 2 separate lists.

[aml1973]

I’m very new to this community (to say the least), and have resisted posting in other threads because of this fact. There’s pretty much only two reasons as to why I’m “taking the plunge” and thus taking some time to make my first post:

1) Because I am in one of the guilds that was helping to defend the outpost on this night in question, and…
2) Because I grew up on Silan at the same time as Wolfies, so I know him at least in passing (if nothing else)

First off, I think that many of you are forgetting that a great number of people who are joining this game right now have absolutely no idea which side has greater numbers. I have both a Tryker and a Matis, and it’s only my Matis character that has chosen a faction: This is purely for RP purposes (as we’re clearly “supposed” to worship Jena / the Karavan) and because I’ve played way too many post apocalyptic RPGs (the Karavan’s body armour and tech level are very reminiscent of these, of course). I do also have a Zoraï, but this character is not really worth mentioning (purely as they’re reserved for playing with a friend who doesn’t have the time to play a great deal at the moment). This character will, however, be siding with the Kami when my friend has more time to play.

Although there’s been some questioning of the list of names that has been published in this thread, I think it’s actually very accurate (of the four people classed as ‘Unknown’, two were definitely defending, by the way): This actually indicates a very even match to me, and suggests that both factions can rally “around about” the same number of people if needs be. In what way does this make the sides incredibly unbalanced? Being rather new to this game, maybe I’ve missed something very obvious? I’m not referring to the fact that you’d maybe need more attackers because of the OP NPCs, by the way… And even if there had been more Kami to compensate for this, I can’t help but feel that this would again have made it an “uneven” fight, purely if we’re number crunching for the sake of stating which faction has the most followers (which seems to be one of the arguments here).

Incidentally, much was said on the night about the dragging of mobs into the OP: On at least two occasions I saw a single red blip incoming from the rear of the camp with lots of little orange dots in tow (I say “rear” purely because the Kami were all attacking from the totally opposite direction each time). This person either:

a) Thought that rushing the camp (on his own) using the world famous “pincer movement for one” was a sound military tactic
b) Was just plain lost, and really thought that opposing forces might be keen to give him directions, or
c) Thought that dragging lots of aggro mobs onto non-tree-hugging non-fuzzball-loving Karavan followers might be good for a couple of yuks

I’m afraid that I’m very much convinced that it was option c, and this upset me greatly as I (perhaps naively) thought that this was not that kind of game with that kind of community. Having said this, after the smack talk started (from both factions) I became less and less surprised by any dirty tactics that anyone used. To be frank, I was utterly disgusted by some of the things that were said in region chat (although to be fair, I was also highly amused by some of you who were genuinely good spirited and were clearly just having fun).

Also, I know it’s been said many times in this thread already, but there does seem to be a shocking dependence on cats for some of you. I can’t believe how easy it is to level in this game as it is, let alone with cats on the go. Do some of you really want to level so quickly? To be honest, I can’t think of anything less fun that downing a handful of cats and grouping to kill yet more and more plants (I actually dumped my first character because they ended up in a guild that did nothing but this). It doesn’t really surprise me that Wolfies is already over level 200: My first character got to 100 within a few days of leaving for the mainland, just because she was high on drugs and had plenty of sap on her blade (the plant variety, this is). Please bear in mind that many guilds actually encourage this, as they think it’s a “good thing” and that they’re “helping their little ones out”. I don’t believe they are: I just believe that they’re helping to burn people out, and I can’t help but feel that Wolfies is maybe feeling this too.

From what I can recall region chat wise; Wolfies wasn’t always duelling on Silan (that dubious “honour” seemed to be reserved for others), but was rather spending time crafting armour, which is something that I had quite a lot of respect for. I don’t know how much time this character spends online, but to feel that you haven’t achieved what you set out to do in such a short space of time seems a little surprising to me. It really was only recently that you came to the mainland (in my mind, anyway, as I usually end up playing any particular MMO for at least 12 months). Do you not think that you’re being a little hasty? As many people have already said: You have it well within your power to help change this situation. It’s not as though there aren’t others that share your opinion: Group together; form a guild together; discuss tactics together (maybe even kill a few plants together). These are the kinds of things that you might find yourself enjoying more than the actual battles themselves, and might provide a reason to stay. If you had achieved what you had set out to do already, wouldn’t you still be leaving because you would now be bored instead? Being the “underdog” can even be a good thing… What if some of you guys managed to turn this around with some good leadership skills and a bit of organisation? Have you got any idea how much respect you would garner from this? It would be very serious kudos, to say the least.

By the way, and as a fitting postscript; the real irony to all this is that I was killed almost immediately after I got to the outpost that night… By some guy called Wolfies

[thlau]

First I have to say that I can understand Wolfies opinion and decision to quit the game, even if I think that I don't think he saw much of Atys during his exploration times. If you like to do PvP it is very frustrating to be on the side, that looses most of the time, I felt the same at the time the homins helped to errect the houses of the gods during Episode 2, as I was a target for cheap honor points with a high heal level only, and so nearly defenseless.

So leaving the game is one option, to encounter the situation. Staying and fighting back where you can is the other way you can go. Thats the way I choosed twice already. And I think I will reach the point where I have to decide if I want to stay or not again in the future, and I can't determine now, what my decision will be then.

I am a Karavaneer who don't receives resources from the Karavan Alliance, and I personally don't want them, I was declared enemy of the Karavan Alliance at the beginning of this year, and I live with it since then. So there are ways to exist in this world without having a huge alliance that supports one. The Karavan alliance might be big, but they lost my respect a very long time back.

And if some one want to ask me why I don't become a Kamist to fight the Karavan Alliance directly, I can say that I am and always was a dedicated follow of Jena. She will save us, and no Karavaneer will tell me that I serve my godess in the wrong way. Noone can say he brings her love to the homins by raging war, and oppressing homins because of there different believes.

Trini Mac'Wiley
Commander of the Darkmoor Rangers

[jawa00]

And even if there had been more Kami to compensate for this, I can’t help but feel that this would again have made it an “uneven” fight, purely if we’re number crunching for the sake of stating which faction has the most followers (which seems to be one of the arguments here).

OP wars don't have to be uneven each time. i don't know how even the numbers have to be for it but i was at battles that had a very even fight. the OP in loria ofc, where the outcome both days where very close and there were several wipes and retakes on both sides. or one of the wars at lost valley where the kami could win about 13 rounds, one too few to get into the defense round next day. do i have to mention that karas aswell kamis enjoyed these battles a lot?

and while speaking of numbers: i made for myself screenshots of /who at different stages in the war and come to nearly same result as you guys did get in this thread. and note, i made the counting at several stages to not make the mistake of only getting a very vague picture from a certain second.
if it seems that there were a lot more karas than kamis (i thought this too until i started to count), it might be because the kamis didn't manage to go back to OP close and where spread that much, that the first ones allready got slaughtered at the front while the last ones still were at TP healing up :/

Also, I know it’s been said many times in this thread already, but there does seem to be a shocking dependence on cats for some of you. I can’t believe how easy it is to level in this game as it is, let alone with cats on the go. Do some of you really want to level so quickly?

i think the people don't get that enraged because of the cats they might loose. as you say, you can level with or without. i'm not saying cats or useless, they are nice to make trades also the OP mats are not to disregard on their importance to get better gear. but they don't whine after the leveling with cats, they are enraged because of loosing the OP itself, as a status symbol of the guild and faction. they are enraged of loosing a fight and getting scratched on their ego.