Dear Players (OP related)

[nonde]

Quote: Jyudas IwillHOLDoutFORr2IwillHOLDoutFORr2...

I will have to try the mantra method of hanging in there too cuz at present not looking like I'm going to last the distance.

Zysha

[raven41]

I will have to try the mantra method of hanging in there too cuz at present not looking like I'm going to last the distance.

Zysha

noooo you cant leave Zysh !!!! o.o

[katriell]

noooo you cant leave Zysh !!!! o.o

*echoes sentiment*

[nonde]

Like Mialee and others in Crescent Moon, Mystic Knights and many others, Ryzom is the game I intended to play forever. I am among those who started an account on mmorg.com to promote it. They would still be here and I wouldn't now be reading mmorg.com in search of a new game and discussing which we will move to when they reach beta with many others had not Nevrax recreated the problems that beset the real world and engender the desire to escape from rl into a game in the first place. A game should be fun, a place of refuge and relaxation, and at present, the game is more stressful than my rl. Kindle well summed up the changes in game culture and that stress is the predictable result thereof.

Examples: Persons A & B are friends. They oppose each other in an op fight and each want me to take their side in it. As a neutral in principle, and someone who is opposed to pvp for religious reasons (Buddhist), professional training (psychologist), and additionally needs to avoid exposure to it for medical reasons (PTSD), I am confronted with the unpalatable circumstance of knowing that whatever I do will let one friend or another, or my personal values, or my need to look after myself down. Is a no win and high stress situation which is recurring.

Some will say it's only a game, don't take it so seriously. It is a game but the feelings generated from participating in it are entirely real in the entirely real human beings playing it - tons of research with ppl playing computer games while hooked up to physiographs have established that this is the case. Friends feel let down when friends don't aid them in time of need, and a friend feels bad when they let their friends down. Not nice or fun feelings, and not ones I need to confront in my rl since my friends aren't at war with each in rl.

Pr 200 zones are a source of bad feelings too. Nevrax calls the inability to heal team members who aren't in the same guild "annoying". I call it a sickening feeling to watch your friends die and be unable to assist or rez them, and frustrating, time-wasting and unfun to need to run from the tp again and again and remove the resulting dp. Then there is witnessing those who enjoy pvp "fun" at supernodes, destroying supreme mats that many need, and abusing each during and in region chat following, and seeing the adverse effects being subject to that have had on other friends. Cleaning my toilet is more fun to me than being in that social environment.

Then there are cats, and failing following up on my or others' suggestions for making them accessible to all and by tomorrow at the latest, take Scar's survey to heart Nevrax and remove them altogether as the tensions associated with them and the disruptions to relationships they cause are killing this game. Person A tells me I shouldn't be giving them to Person B, because Person C told Person A that person B didn't share them. Meanwhile Person B had long ago told me that Person C hadn't shared ones they got from Person A and others. So I tell Person A that I am not a cat policeman and that it is a matter for Person B and Person C to sort out between themselves. Somehow in a way that is entirely unclear to me my action in giving cats to Person B has adversely affected Person A who proceeds to tell me ways in which others have taken advantage of me to make my day in Atys even more delightful. Then I am told that someone wants to kos me for telling someone who gave them cats that I expected to be given some for crafting work, presumably as my getting some meant he would get less. I'm sure others have similar cat horror stories and they make for a very unentertaining time in an entertainment product.

These are but a few examples of the tensions many of us are subjected to in the current climate, and they all require time in tells which takes time away from actual game time too which creates additional stresses, eg mats timing out on merchants, commitments to others fulfilled late, and so on. I want a game to be fun. A place where my decisions are of the order of what shall we hunt and my discussions with others concern frivilous things like what armor combo do you think looks best? Being here in recent times is like an immersion in conflict, tensions, betrayals, back stabbing. Atys has become a place to escape from, instead of a place to escape into, and if the devs haven't addressed the underlying cause of this climate prior to a game with a crafting system even 65% as good as this one comes out, you can bet ur last stack of Q250 cats I'm outta here.

It's a safe bet too as I left characters as well developed as Zysha in 3 other mmos due to changes made to the games, and I have applied for betas of Vanguard and Spellborn and signed up on forums and will apply for LotR, Hero's Journey,and Tabula Rasa, and my aversion to the graphics in Seed which has been released grows less by the day if not hour.

Zysha

[omsop]

Pretty much everything Zysha has said in post #95 i agree with, the bad feeling in the game lately is getting me down, story's are going around like the where A talks to B About C saying that D is.... oh well i wont go there as even A, B, C & D confuses me. but it was something like this that all relates back to OP's that made me Quit Guild yesterday, the game stress is rising all over, and i feel the same way as Zysha does atm, my next move is to say to hell with it, its a Game, its not fun, bye bye Ryzom.

[iphdrunk]

(...)Zysha

A very nice, detailed and insightful post

Don't quit yet Zysh.. If I didn't, you must stay who am I going to chat and rant to?

[iphdrunk]

There DO need to be rewards for pvp, the rewards for digging are money and crafting, if op mats become avalible to all to buy, then there will be no reson to PvP.(...) a reason to fight needs to be there in order to make it worthwile and fun.

A long time ago I addressed this particular issue, and I proposed something based on the principle of self-containment more or less, give PvP players rewards that give an advantage / bonus / etc. aimed at PvP scenarios. In other words, make the rewards uninteresting to non PvPers. Easier said than done, but I didn't say it does not need time to think about them; even the developers stated that they were taking time to consider the rewards, to make OPs worth having (worth having != worth fighting for, btw)

Example: any stanza that can be used in a PvP-only fight, a craft bonus that increases your dodge against a PC only, etc. On the other hand, a new weapon, or weapon skin, or mat that is required to craft it, those aren't that type of reward, since PvE players are (at least) as interested in them as PvP players.


One of the issues some have raised is that OP owners get OP outputs for little to none work involved, other than securing it. This is lacking in PVE / Non OP settings. Why can't I do other things like in EP2 which I may feel like doing and get honor points that I can use at the Karavan guide to get mats or crystals? Marjo stated that those NPCs would remain indefinitely in game and that new events would allow players get more honpos... this was... in November? pweeze

[raven41]

*sigh* I understand Zysh ...Its already been 2 weeks+ out of game for me ...
Ill miss you Zysh! if you do go ...Goodluck in all you do

[nonde]

Anissa writes:

a new weapon, or weapon skin, or mat that is required to craft it, those aren't that type of reward, since PvE players are (at least) as interested in them as PvP players.


Nail on the head Anissa, as what Nevrax have done is given realistical means of access to production of the most popular items in the game to only a small and with respect to Q250 cats and mats elite percentage of the player base - relegating other play styles to status of 2nd class citizens to borrow from Zahan's post. So doing can only and predictably be expected to seed discontent in those disenfranched. It sucks Nevrax to be made to feel like a beggar for others' scraps, to have to work and grind while others don't or work and grind to obtain what others get for free all the while resenting they are thereby doubly advantaged by the divisive and inequitable structure you have imposed on this once beyond words wonderful community. This is the "entertaining" experience you are giving significant numbers of your player base.

Were the rewards pvp related (or available to all segments of the community) this problem would not exist. While many of us would love an event dagger I know of noone who resents those who earned them via pvp having one while one does not, partly as the reward is pvp relevant, but also as the option is there for us to get one too should we wish to invest time and effort. We aren't powerless to obtain the reward should we wish it and we therefore don't feel resentment in relation to our circumstances or towards those who have what we do not. In contrast, the rewards for pvp are something all sections of the community want and the option is not realistically there for the majority of players to own a Q250 op despite the ubiquitous need for Q250 cats.

Pvp is not the problem. It's NOT pvp's fault It's the dev's fault for creating a structure which excludes significance numbers of players from securing the means to produce the rewards we all want.

Let's say the shoe was on the non pvp foot. Cats and op mats are arguably the primary province of the crafting community, cats as crafting is the slowest skill to level and using them for crafting saves the most time, and mats obviously as crafters are the ones who can use them. The devs decide that since high level crafters are their longest term and most committed subscribers they wish to reward us (and as they should heh). Ops are launched but are only available to those with Q250 crafting and Q250 dig skills, and to maintain ownership requires increasing numbers of Q250 skills in each - a battle of the levels for possession. Anissa owns 6 and Posmo and Petej own 5 and I own 3 . We are very pleased indeed with the launch of ops .

But how does the rest of the community who aren't craft and dig deranged feel? They want the mats and cats too - some even want to gasp horror to a crafter use them to level fight skills. Some start to pl dig and craft, so we form alliances and dig each other's spots all the while using our Q250 cats to do it in half the time as the rest. It would be a rare homin who would not resent our position of privelege, feel excluded from meaningful participation in the new content, and relegated by the dev team to status of secondary class players.

Hopefully using a crafting analogy will better illuminate how giving generic rewards to a subsection of a community generates the problems we are now experiencing, as this, and not pvp is the problem.

Zysha

[philu]

Zysha I would like to say that your 2 most resent posts on this thread are 2 of the best, most reasoned and intelligent posts I have ever seen. They are also 2 of the saddest posts I have ever read.

It is clear to me from your words that you are passionate about this game. It saddens me to read how your passion is being subverted/corrupted, both by gameplay elements and the actions of other players.

I sincerely hope that you can maintain your mantra and stick with us a while longer. Have you considered following the Samsara's example? Have you considered walking away from all OP/Cat related stuff and just doing what you enjoy most (digging and crafting I believe)? It's what I've done recently and it has helped.

I used to let it all get to me (as it seems to do with you), now I just ignore it. I couldn't care less if my guild has an OP or not, or if I don't have any cats. I only use them very sparingly on skills below lvl 100 or to clear DP a little quicker.

I don't hate PvP but I would like more PvE please Nevrax. I have come to view the PvP content as a 'necessary evil'. If it gets more people suscribing and keeps the game afloat, leaving me to play MY game MY way, then fine. As long as they don't start affecting me then let them have their 'fun'. I'm still having mine and mine doesn't affect them.

EDIT: forgot to say - Please don't go! We will miss you and the game/community will be diminished by you leaving.