To Believe, To Reach For Glory!

[alexrowe]

This is got to be the worst invasion of the game, just to get a weapon takes forever, amps are not even worth to get but the most "annoying" is the clicking...... you even can't put more than 5 mats.

[rhaenaan]

I'm sorry to say that this event was very poorly executed and communicated. The expectation was set that this would be an invasion structured like previous invasions. It was then somewhat snuck in on the middle of an afternoon.

When it was apparent that there was an invasion occurring, our guild mobilized (those that were online) and immediately responded to the threat. After racking up the first round of DP, we assumed that the even simply hadn't started "officially" yet. So we exercised additional caution and tried to learn more about the threat.

When there appeared to be more of an "official" start with the appearance of Mynias, we went at it again and accumulated more DP. That's fine, the rewards were assumed to be commensurate with the costs. Also, it was still assumed that this would be a fixed duration event with an obvious win/end state.

After a good 5-6 hours of this, the majority of my guild threw in the towel. The rewards were proven to be trivial (not to mention a complete PITA to get. Come on, why can't the system do the math for redeeming more than 5 of an item at a time. It took me amost an hour of clicking to redeem 400 claws and take the tokens through the cycle.)

To top it off, I had one guild member leave the guild and others that are extremely pissed and on the verge of leaving. Why? Well...thinking that this was a regular invasion and our primary purpose in the game, they expected the Guild to stand our ground in Dyron until the invasion was turned back. They couldn't honestly beleive that we would be subjected to infinite respawns and little or no reward. The more cynical among our members caught on that this was just a botched event. However, the idealists are still crying "coward" and urging us into a never-ending battle. The division that this has created in my guild will take weeks to repair. Had it been based on a "realistic" game event, I would have no complaints. But the poor expectation setting, arbitrary infinte respawn, the deviation from the established invasion model, the new (an unannounced) abilities of creatures to walk on water and the lack of rewards proportional to the tasks make this a huge SNAFU in my mind. I will probably continue to stand ground with my guild members that feel obligated to keep up the fight. But that's out of support for *their* game experience and not because I consider it fun. It's monotonous and frankly annoying. There is no way to create a strategy and it's simply a mindless hacking experience.

Suggestions:

In future, if you are changing major game behaviors or precedents set in previous events, it needs to be more clearly communicated.

If you are planning an "invasion", plan for the invasion to actually come from somewhere. Otherwise it's no different than having creatures fall from the sky on top of players. How can you possibly "push back" an invasion when the enemy respawns behind you. If the enemy is given a strategic advantage, the players need to be given some similar counter. The ideal situation would be to establish a spawning grounds in the roots and have the waves migrate out to the lands. Creatures would start out weak in the roots and they longer they're allowed to roam free, the more their level increases. The alternative is to prevent respawning in an area where players are "holding it". This would at least give the illusion of pushing the invasion back and would give some meaning to staying in the war zone.

Rewards need to be proportional to effort. I should get more fame as a veteran of the invasion than I should for digging up a wad of wax by an unprotected lake.

Sorry Atys....I normally throw my support behind you because I understand the complexity and usually see the underlying logic to what you do. However, I just don't get this one. If it had been communicated as a change or evolution of the overall game dynamic it would have made more sense. But to call it an invasion after using that term for a discrete event was just a recipe for upset players.

[xenofur]

@rhaenaan: please read this thread: http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9763
seems none in your guild even bothered to seek out and talk with the npcs <_<
they actually created a complex system and added content and importance to even small actions, it's not just "kitin there, kill"
but i agree the reward system is completely broken <_< the gms already had to hear quite a bit about that from me

[Fred1l1]

ok so its basically a crafter thing...a weapon and/or heavy armor crafter thing. I'm a jewel crafter i would also like to help out equipping but it seems i am unable to do so. So therefore the fighters and magicians are stuck doing seemingly worthless things until the time comes for the real invasion

[xenofur]

not quite, from what i have read so far there won't be any wondermats if the ressource master doesn't get any kitin secretions, so the warriors do have a job to do

[aylwyne]

ok so its basically a crafter thing...a weapon and/or heavy armor crafter thing. I'm a jewel crafter i would also like to help out equipping but it seems i am unable to do so. So therefore the fighters and magicians are stuck doing seemingly worthless things until the time comes for the real invasion

Based on the "Healer" in your sig, I'd say you could be out healing in one of the groups trying to get these missions done. It's not like the crafters or harvesters can just walk around and do their missions.

Also, in the process of killing the kitins while helping groups travel, you get kitin secretion, which is important to get to the harvester NPC.

[rhaenaan]

@rhaenaan: please read this thread: http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9763
seems none in your guild even bothered to seek out and talk with the npcs <_<
they actually created a complex system and added content and importance to even small actions, it's not just "kitin there, kill"
but i agree the reward system is completely broken <_< the gms already had to hear quite a bit about that from me

Again....once we realized that this was not a typical "invasion", we did that.

I'm not complaining as much about the event itself as the poor expectation management. When a mass of Kitin show up on your doorstep and start slaughtering everything that moves, seeking out NPCs for storyline would not be a natural or logical response. When I'm defending the way things are implemented, I would normally resort to working through the equivalent IRL logic. In this case, guard towers appeared out of nowhere, Kitin spawned out of the ether, imperial guards and camps just "popped up" and there was suddenly this fairly complex mission system that relied on people ignoring the immediate threat and chatting with NPCs. No build-up. No massing or migration of Imperial guards. No postings or hints from NPCs in the towns. Just the occassional note in the forums. If we were truly building guard towers all over the planet, would you not think that the NPCs would be talking about it? How about considering a "hear rumours" tab on all NPCs and some progressive revelation of details over time rather than a mass-dump in a patch.

Also the implication that this was an "invasion" when all previous invasions have been Non-DP acruing and only a few hours in duration was a big problem.

Even a simple MOTD that said "Kitin massing in xxx,xxx,xxx. Seek out the Imperial Guard for details" would have gone a long way towards addressing what I perceive to be poor communications. A warning that this was a new model and not a typical invasion would also have been appreciated, but just SOMETHING when this started would have been nice.

I get the long term implications and the desire to create something with a larger scope than the simple hack-and-slash invasions of the past. However, with the time and effort that went into creating a "realistic" game environment, it's little things like this that spoil the experience. We should be able to push back the invasion (which we can't). We should be able to secure an area (which we can't). We should be able to block the assault or funnel it into other areas (which we can't). We should be able to determine where they're coming from and attack them in their lair (which we can't). We should be able to use Player Characters to defend an area and not have to simply buy NPCs to do the job for us. Essentially we have little or no impact on the story and we're just watching as the GMs run through what appears to be a heavily scripted scenario. Seriously, if nobody should up for the fight, do you have the sense that anything would change? I know that you said that even the tiniest action has an impact, but I don't see it. It seems like hack and slash until the script notches forward. Perhaps the script advances based on how quickly we gather mats or on some arbitrary body count...but it still feels like a closed script.

I love SoR. It's a fun game filled with great people. I also have great respect for the people that put this together and run it. (The marketing department could use a swift kick, but that's another story). The GMs are top notch and more responsive than 90% of the 6-figure salary IT support people that I've had to work with. The Devs also seem to be responsive when a serious issue is discovered. However, I feel like the players are just along for the ride and this isn't the collaborative, evolving work that I would expect it to become.

The comparison between a D&D DM and the GM's/Devs of SoR keeps popping up. But the sign of a good DM is one that lets the game evolve even when it *doesn't* go where they expect it to. I'm not seeing that so far. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong, though.

It's just my opinion, of course. None of this is going to drive me out of SoR and the input is only intended to provide some feedback and suggestions. It isn't intended as a trashing of the game, GMs or the developers. If it's coming across that way, please know that's not my intent.

[xenofur]

very good post, i agree with the points made there, my suggestion would be: send it off as a suggestion ticket, as it is event-related it will be relayed to the devs with a higher priority than normal suggestion tickets

[rhaenaan]

very good post, i agree with the points made there, my suggestion would be: send it off as a suggestion ticket, as it is event-related it will be relayed to the devs with a higher priority than normal suggestion tickets

Thanks for the suggestion, Mithaldu. I'll follow up on it. Sometimes it's too easy to get into the discussion and miss the need to get the information to the right people.

Rhaen