A Possible Third Group (Faction ?)

[katriell]

Some thoughts on the current state of neutrals/neutrality, which may or may not be entirely relevant...

Neutrals aren't a third faction, as a whole, and shouldn't be considered/made so. However, being "neutral" does not preclude involvement in war and politics. Neutral, in the game, is merely a container which exists to classify those who, for whatever reason and to whatever end, do not want to be in the allegiance of Kami or Karavan. Every "neutral" individual and group is varied; no particular set of beliefs, ideals, motives, goals, and needs can be universally applied to them. There are vast possibilities for story and action driven by neutrals, limited only by the political climate set by the shard's community and some mechanics (i.e., the lack of tag PvP between K&K and neutrals). Simply, "neutral" is a bucket of diverse homins which cannot be classified as a whole, and is not cohesive enough to be a faction anyway due to the differences within it.

[qurzo]

The powers are not just gods and religion but economic, physical and political powers with the ability to grant rewards and abilities. There is no such 3rd option of that level of power, thus no 3rd faction.

Thats wrestling with words, Kami and Karavan alliances are factions, but a group of neutral crafters is also a faction. In the Kara or Kami community there also different factions etc etc.

Its easier to see Kara and Kami as religions, the alliances are factions based on these religions, but not all Kami's or Kara's are automatically member of these alliances/factions.

The powers and rewards are "religion" based not faction based imho.

[sehracii]

The difference is for the K/K it isn't their priority until an invasion is on their doorstep and they don't LEARN anything from working together, they go straight back at it.

Being a confirmed Ma Duk/Jena beleiver does NOT mean killing kitin is not your priority! How do you get that? And don't say what players do, players do what they want. Base it on what the factions themselves ask.

All Karavan and Kami welcomers give out missions to kill kitin every single day, many more missions involving that than dealing with opposing tribes. Also once to do the rite (I don't know about Kami but Kara its just to retrieve something that was stolen.) There may be more instances, but it seems far from their priority. The majority of their time they are dealing with kitin.

In fact in the Great Swarming when homins were at their peak, the Ks were the only ones who could stand up to the kitin, so having some faith in them now seems pretty logical if you're worried about the kitin.

[mrshad]

A pro-homin stance is where a lot of people were, and have since been forced from or have quite in disgust at being forced and not catered to. That was the anti-Kitin, build up the world and distrust the motivations of the factions group.

Again, everyone is Pro-homin. Of course a lot of people were there, it is the default state.

Just like everyone is Anti-kitin, it is hardly a distiguishing feature. Find me a mission that says "Go kill the homin, that the kitin may thrive!" (seriously, I really want you to. It would be an interesting RP position )

You can't make a faction out of values everyone shares. A viable faction would have to have a set of belifes that set the members apart from other homin. So far, the only ideas I am hearing for a third faction are:

Homins are good.
Kitin are bad.
We want teleporters.

Which describes everyone.

(although I dig your idea about a bunch of little mini-factions, that would be fun.)

[sx4rlet]

First Jared, I like the idea!

There are more options, like Spritehs / Grimjims posts in the other thread, but I like the way you give body to your idea.

To all you nay-sayers, it is very easy to say things like 'it cant be done','the group is too diverse', etc. Take Jared's challenge and for once think of how it can be done.

Disagreeing and not giving alternatives is always the easy way out.

[rakehell]

The powers are not just gods and religion but economic, physical and political powers with the ability to grant rewards and abilities. There is no such 3rd option of that level of power, thus no 3rd faction.

That's true, Tylarth. That's crux of the problem, but it need not be.

The lore is a living thing. Players may add and expand on it much as they have added new regions to Ryzom and adventures via the Ring.

As long as there is a take off point to go in a new direction and the lore remains coherent I don't see a problem with it. The devs obviously would have to agree & maintain order to the world, but otherwise why not? Player content takes the game in new and unexpected directions.

To address the offtopic comment:
Having a real-time limit on the life of items is very unfriendly for the casual player. I'd rather see a degradation of an item's features as it becomes worn. An Amp that has +90% bonus might only have +80% after X amount of damage (doesn't have to be tit for tat, could even be random). That might accomplish the same goal without penalizing any one group of players.

[danolt]

When do you stop creating groups/factional benefits, why add just one?

Do we want new factions over new zones, new mobs, new skills for everyone?

How does a third equal factional power fit in the story? In other words, where are the scientist, scholars and sages that will support, maintain and develop and teach new tech and powers and where did they come from?

Why would the K's allow it to grow into a rival/threat when they could easily and instantly smash them?

Don't get me wrong I think the neutral players bring a lot to the game. Their presence adds huge benefits to the overall gaming experience. The additional moral dilemmas and political pressures they create are a major reason why I am still in the game.

What concerns me is selling out the game in order to appease a subset of players. Homins are still pretty much in the stick age. The fact that the Skipper who is suppose to be some sort of engineer/inventor was unable to build a raft that floats shows just how advanced Homins are in our own tech. How can Homins equally and independently compete with the K's? Homins need to learn and advance, we are dependent on the K's.

SOoooooo, Instead of adding a third faction I would recommend using the 4 subsets that already exist. I would like to see the nations be able to expand. Do something like the temple event for the capital cities that would create a benefit for the citizens of that city.


New buildings release new patterns, new skills etc...

This would add a whole new layer of roleplaying goodness and stay to true to the story as it is now and lay the ground work for a viable Homin faction.

Pero

[mrshad]

Take Jared's challenge and for once think of how it can be done.

I can think of ways, but they all amount to a Deus Ex Machina attempt to appease those who want to feel better about themselves by staying out of the conflict.


Tryker inventors could develop airships that fly between various stops. They charge vast amounts of dapper for thier services (on the order of 200K per ticket, I think), and there is always the chance that a flight won't make it safetly to its destination.

An advanced nation of homins from somewhere else on Atys could try to liberate us from the grip of the kami and karavan by launching attacks on the current strongholds (the capitol cities) and attempting to impose martial law while the rebellions are quelled. Sympathizers would get access to thier advanced teleportation mechanisms, in exchange for oaths of loyalty and acts of service.

The Zign-siah, an obscure Zorai sect, have found mystical means to move both body and soul in between "Soul Anchors" that they have placed around Atys. Of course, not just any homin can join the Zign-siah, one must be very adept at magic, and not at all afraid of doing whatever it takes to aquire the Nia-zign-toa; the goo bassed concoction that allows the flesh to merge close enough with the spirit that transportation is possible.

[mithur]

I think that make a trytonist faction or similar will solve nothing; then, those who don't join that faction will call himself true neutrals, and call the others traitors, and things like that.

I think that the trick is make more easy the life for those who don't want join a factions; as easy as that.

And lore justifications are easy to be found. I.e., the rangers negotiating with the Ks to free some PR tp to everybody, easy and in lore.

[mrshad]

the rangers negotiating with the Ks to free some PR tp to everybody, easy and in lore.

If TPs are given out to anyone, why bother joining a faction?