Ryzom

ayne31 wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by ayne31
How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?


NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*

\

Guess you haven't a clue about the origial Horizons then. ^_~ Heck, an entire race living under water, not ever being able to leave or else they'd dry up. No other races could get to them really well if at all. You've no idea how huge it was.

- N

Just to keep the quotes according to reality:

ayne31 wrote:How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?

neiana wrote:If the game were released that way, that would be *THE* awesome game.

ayne31 wrote:NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*

Now my dear Neiana - please explain to me how your last post

neiana wrote:Guess you haven't a clue about the origial Horizons then. ^_~ Heck, an entire race living under water, not ever being able to leave or else they'd dry up. No other races could get to them really well if at all. You've no idea how huge it was.

fits in with the 3 original quotes above. O_o

ayne31 wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by ayne31
How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?


NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*

Alright, since you're gonna bring EQ back into it. /flame on.

First of all, if you are going to ***** about EQ, it boggles my MIND that you would chose their racial system. It is restrictive, in a sense, because starting stats do indeed vary from race to race, and class choices are also limited by race. They took great care ( in this area anyway ) to make sure that race played some kind of role in your BEGINNING experience. It vastly changed your starting city and quests, what people you would interact with, how NPC's treated you, a minor ability or two, and some purely background aspects like Diety and history. And yes, there were indeed some consensuses about which race was the best suited to a given class.

And none of that meant SQUAT past even level 30. Unless you were playing on a particular ruleset server by your OWN CHOICE to make race matter more, it was negligable! "The PERFECT xxx-class"??? Did the fact that your barbarian warrior had 10 less STA than the troll warrior MATTER when shamans cast 100 STA buffs on you, or when clerics gave you 1500 hp marks? Starting stats were a joke: your equipment was the only thing that mattered. So what are you TALKING about? How is EQ bound forever by racial chains?

If you are going to take stabs at EQ, how about their terrible raid system, their monotonous item camping, their perpetual downtime between high level fights? How about their lack of player story contribution or their near worthless crafting system?

What it sounds ilke to ME ayne31, is that you played EQ till maybe 15, realized that your human wizard didn't have as much INT as an erudite, and assumed you never would. EQ has LOTS of problems, but these allegations of racial restriction are a drop in the ocean at best.

I have no intention to tell everyone what I dont like about EQsince I am playing SoR for the differences it has over it. And one of the major differences I want to keep at all cost is that race doesnt matter BIG at creation.

You are right that on the long run it doesnt matter but EQ boards are overflowing with advice for which race you *have to* take to max out as a <insert class> and the newbs who think they are smart take this advice gladly and so we see the servers overflowing with 100ds of identical race/class combos each month.

And wise-assed forum seniors telling innocent newbs: "You made a human druid? better rereoll or you#ll come back whining every week *LOL*"

I dont need it anymore, I really dont.

ayne31 wrote:I have no intention to tell everyone what I dont like about EQsince I am playing SoR for the differences it has over it. And one of the major differences I want to keep at all cost is that race doesnt matter BIG at creation.

You are right that on the long run it doesnt matter but EQ boards are overflowing with advice for which race you *have to* take to max out as a <insert class> and the newbs who think they are smart take this advice gladly and so we see the servers overflowing with 100ds of identical race/class combos each month.

And wise-assed forum seniors telling innocent newbs: "You made a human druid? better rereoll or you#ll come back whining every week *LOL*"

I dont need it anymore, I really dont.

Simply put EverQuit is nothing but a cult classic now. It had it's day, I think we should all just leave it be Move on to newer, better things like SoR.

Aside from being vastly different than EQ, the other thing I like about SoR so far is that the community isn't overflowed with arrogance and rude people...yet. I honestly hope it stays that way. I like having fun and helping people, but quite frankly, if it ever became another EQ/AC/AC2/SWG/DAoC/AO/WoW(which has got to be the WORST community ever) I'll be leaving.

kierstad wrote:Aside from being vastly different than EQ, the other thing I like about SoR so far is that the community isn't overflowed with arrogance and rude people...yet. I honestly hope it stays that way. I like having fun and helping people, but quite frankly, if it ever became another EQ/AC/AC2/SWG/DAoC/AO/WoW(which has got to be the WORST community ever) I'll be leaving.

The sad truth is that for every game comes the time when people feel they have "mastered" the game or even worse "won". Personally I have no idea how an MMORPG can be "won" but I have seen people actually writing these very words in SWG or EQ boards.

And once these people are getting bored they try start teaching everybody else how to play the game....this behaivior pattern is tied to human nature I am afraid and so becomes inevitable on the long run.

ayne31 wrote:The sad truth is that for every game comes the time when people feel they have "mastered" the game or even worse "won". Personally I have no idea how an MMORPG can be "won" but I have seen people actually writing these very words in SWG or EQ boards.

As far as I can make out, your issue is thus:

You don't want this game to add racial identitiy via unique skillsets, because this will prevent ANY character from concievably acquiring ANY skills he/she desires. You are worried that it will create "supreme class-race combinations", which you do not care for. What you DO want is to for races to continue drawing from the same, perfectly equal skill pool. In other words, to keep races as basically a set of textures for your avatar and nothing more.


You know what, that's valid. I can empathize with a bad taste in the mouth, having chosen my race poorly for my class in other games. It can makes things difficult at times. We obviously disagree, however, as to the value which is added from racial identity. I believe it adds to uniqueness, because it differentiates between a skillX/raceY and a skillX/raceZ. Perhaps uniqueness is more important to me than it is to you; hell I have chosen bad race/class combos INTENTIONALLY just so I wouldn't see 50 of myself a day. But I respect your opinion.

Here's where we diverge though.
1) EQ is NOT a game in which race/class combos reigned supreme. Maybe wankers do complain about it on the forum, I didn't read the forum I played the game(for 3 years). And every time I played and grouped with new people I would end up with different race combos: clearly it is not a big freaking deal.

2) What you don't want is cookiecutter builds running around everywhere right? I GUARANTEE you that a few racial bonuses to particular skills are the smallest factor in creating that kid of environement. a: never underestimate people's desire to be different b: its the underlying skill system that really matters. Honestly, I don't know what to expect of Ryzom, I haven't gotten high enough to get a feel for how the skill system will push me and pull me.

Jueiin

jujumon wrote: What you don't want is cookiecutter builds running around everywhere right? I GUARANTEE you that a few racial bonuses to particular skills are the smallest factor in creating that kid of environement. a: never underestimate people's desire to be different b: its the underlying skill system that really matters. Honestly, I don't know what to expect of Ryzom, I haven't gotten high enough to get a feel for how the skill system will push me and pull me.

Jueiin

You are perfectly right. And looking at the simpliest of all solutions Nevrax has chosen for factions (+8/+8/-8/-8/-16 equally divided) I am VERY unsure if they come up with more then Fyros +10HP -10 Sap etc. Of course I know that we have been given just 1 bloody race so far with 4 diffeent sets of textures and nothing more and I am far from being satisfied with that. I have provided lots of ideas in another thread how racial diversity can be achieved without touching the basic equalness of all races BUT...

.... my MAIN issue is that I charge nevrax of having released the game to early for their own ecomical reasons in full knowledge that the game was unfinished yet and that there would be dramatic changes (I mean changes - NOT additions) within 2 months of release. And this is no issue of gameplay or personal taste. Why TF did Nevrax not wait? Did they play for time or need beta testers willing to pay for the privilege?

I'd wish nothing more than to be proven wrong and I rather have you all lauugh at me in 2 months than tell me "You knew it...."