Illegal Harvest?

[mrshad]

So...I am haresting along, and I gather an unusually high amount of mats (I got 7.something, when I typically only get 6) And I get a message saying the I have harvested illegally, and I won't get experience.

Am I alone in asking WTF?

Now, we know from a prematurely locked and deleted thread that these sorts of message are usually ment to curtail exploiters from getting XP off of mobs that cannot possibly reach them. But how is it even remotly possible to illegally harvets a node? What exactly did I do that was so illegal?

And before any GMs try to dodge the quesiton by accusing me of trying to get away with exploiting (and there by calling me a cheater, an accusation that I resent!), let's make clear that, so far, XP is the point of the entire game. All I want to know is what not to do in order to keep earning it.

Apparantly, harvesting normally violates some silly check in the software, I think we are entitled to know what that check is in order to avoid violating it.

[tetra]

So...I am haresting along, and I gather an unusually high amount of mats (I got 7.something, when I typically only get 6) And I get a message saying the I have harvested illegally, and I won't get experience.

Am I alone in asking WTF?

Now, we know from a prematurely locked and deleted thread that these sorts of message are usually ment to curtail exploiters from getting XP off of mobs that cannot possibly reach them. But how is it even remotly possible to illegally harvets a node? What exactly did I do that was so illegal?

And before any GMs try to dodge the quesiton by accusing me of trying to get away with exploiting (and there by calling me a cheater, an accusation that I resent!), let's make clear that, so far, XP is the point of the entire game. All I want to know is what not to do in order to keep earning it.

Apparantly, harvesting normally violates some silly check in the software, I think we are entitled to know what that check is in order to avoid violating it.

I'm going to take a guess, and say that the trigger to cause a nonexp generating harvest, is probably related to gas/explosions going off and not being able to reach you.

It's probably an issue where the explosion kicks in, before the actual explosion, and was prevented by a careplan... or was bugged and didn't explode at all. Either that or there is a silly 'you can't harvest more than x' type flag.

[zumwalt]

Well, I am glad I was not the first to point this out, I decided to bite my tongue on this one originally because some people call me dramatic and insane when I find something out of the ordinary slam me.

This has happened to me 4 times now, when I would normally pull a 9.2, somehow I pull a 9.8, and BAM, it was illegal, no exp, and I loose between 1600 - 1800 exp per hit.

I tried to bring up this illegal stuff in another thread, but it got deleted, they are doing this to stop cheaters, so just do what I do, when you get to the point in your harvest you know you normally get, just SIT, stop your harvest.

Otherwise, like I have been told so many times, this Illegal message is to stop CHEATERS from gaining exp where they shouldn't.

It the system trying to counterbalance an unbalanced harvest I guess.
Moderators of this forum will not tolerate the discussion of what is or what is not cheating, I could, if you like post there email to me that states this fact, but I guess you get that point by now.

Yea its a real pain.

But hey, its only a game, just don't go for that extra material and you won't be considered a cheater harvestor.

Otherwise, expect to be spanked by the system.


EDIT:
Missed Tetra post, posted same time I did:

I'm going to take a guess, and say that the trigger to cause a nonexp generating harvest, is probably related to gas/explosions going off and not being able to reach you.

It's probably an issue where the explosion kicks in, before the actual explosion, and was prevented by a careplan... or was bugged and didn't explode at all. Either that or there is a silly 'you can't harvest more than x' type flag.

Nope, I had over half damage bar left and got the message, its not based on the explosion, its based solely on you getting more mats than that of what the system thinks you should get, atleast that is my experience.

Like I said, easily fixed, just SIT DOWN, before you get to many mats.
Works for me.

[zukor]

I tried to bring up this illegal stuff in another thread, but it got deleted, they are doing this to stop cheaters, so just do what I do, when you get to the point in your harvest you know you normally get, just SIT, stop your harvest.

Otherwise, like I have been told so many times, this Illegal message is to stop CHEATERS from gaining exp where they shouldn't.

It the system trying to counterbalance an unbalanced harvest I guess.
Moderators of this forum will not tolerate the discussion of what is or what is not cheating, I could, if you like post there email to me that states this fact, but I guess you get that point by now.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. We are not dealing with matters of national securty here. What is this discussion they will not tolerate?? If you are doing something the way you are supposed to, and the game screws up and says you're cheating, we cannot discuss this? That is a BUG, plain and simple, and it needs to be fixed. Such discussion should be encouraged for the benefit of the game.

Doctor Z.

[zumwalt]

Question in this Post to the GM's was by MrShad

Now, we know from a prematurely locked and deleted thread that these sorts of message are usually ment to curtail exploiters from getting XP off of mobs that cannot possibly reach them. But how is it even remotly possible to illegally harvets a node? What exactly did I do that was so illegal?

Which was identical to my initial questions about exploits to the moderators / GM's of the game, which resulted in the deletion of the thread, asking questions of this nature WILL get the thread locked/deleted Doctor Z.

Here is the GM's perspective and answer as to why specific exploit questions that cause loss of exp will not be tolerated.

We have absolutely no desire to squelch your desire to get information, request information or post your thoughts. However, your posts were specifically directed toward information on how exploits work or what is considered an exploit. Exploits will not be discussed by the CS or CM team. Your questions were answered in the sense that nothing is considered an exploit by the game mechanic. Although, the game mechanic will prevent experience in certain situations, it doesn't ban you for an exploit. We know accidents happen. The support staff will determine an exploit, but will not determine the exploit in your thread. It was also stated we will determine an accident as it happens. We will always help with information as we can, but exploits will never be a free flowing form of information.

The message board is not a right, it is a privilege and a service. We offer the boards as a service and moderate them as we see beneficial to the community. Discussing what is and isn't an exploit is not beneficial to the community as a whole. Discussing the specific of a mechanic may be beneficial and may be something we could visit, but your comments were central to exploits.

Ryzom Senior GM

With that said, don't bring questions to the Ryzom board that is Moderated, that have to do with Exploits in any form or fassion, just take the loss of exp with a grain of salt, and know you cheated, wether knowingly or unknownlingly.

At some point if you keep doing it you will get punished by the GM's, until then, you will get punished by the system.

Guilty until proven innocent is the motto in this game, just learn that now and go back to playing.

Sorry to burst your bubble on it, but your not going to get any answers here as to what would cause this to happen, or any loss of exp to happen, your just going to have to learn the hard way and move on.

[zukor]

Guilty until proven innocent is the motto in this game, just learn that now and go back to playing.

Sorry to burst your bubble on it, but your not going to get any answers here as to what would cause this to happen, or any loss of exp to happen, your just going to have to learn the hard way and move on.

I understand that discussing the details of exploits and how to perform them is something the GM's don't want. However, who here is talking about an exploit? mrshad, in the first post, talks about harvesting normally and having an incorrect response from the game accusing him of cheating. I assume what he says is true, both because there is no reason for him to post it otherwise, and also because you (zumwalt) have corroborated it. If even obvious BUGS such as this cannot be discussed, then there is something very wrong.

I realize this is a private forum and Nevrax and the GM's they've delegated to can run it any way they want. But in a larger sense, they're not free to be too high-handed. Again, the MMO market is extremely competitive. If you are too cavalier with your player base and upset them, they can and will go elsewhere. Ultimately, the customer has the final say.

Doctor Z.

[zumwalt]

All loss of experience in this game is do to the system trying to stop exploiters from gaining experience in a situation that is not supposed to exist.

Every question pertaining to loss of experience is a question about how to avoid that particular exploit code, which will not be discussed.

This problem in harvesting is a real problem, it does exist, I have been through the hoops of asking the questions on how to avoid loss of experience only to be told not to ask because I won't be told.

To us, as players, loss of exp when we don't know why, is a BUG, to the GM's and CS's, the loss of exp when we do something, is because we did something wrong, they will determine if it was by choice or by accident and act accordingly.

Replicating these losses is sometimes easy, and other times hard, but asking the GM's and CS's to explain to us how to avoid the systems checks and balances will net no results in answers.

That is what I am trying to point out.

Steps to avoid this in harvesting are rather simple, either sit before your run 100% out of time, or stop at a solid number in harvest before the timer runs out.

Say you know you can get 9 solid out of any given harvest, so at 9.x just sit, don't try to push the decimal point.

The loss of exp will not happen if you run out of focus, it has to do more with the time remaining and the amount of the harvest bar nearing its end before the next catch.

Probably more information about it than what you had before, but that is just by my research on it, not something factual given to me by any CS or GM, this is just me trying to find out why I loose exp while harvesting and how to stop loosing it because its the only thing in the game worth getting.

[mrshad]

You know, I can't replicate it for the life of me. And I have died a few times trying

But, there really aren't that many ways I go about harvesting...I pop a source, double click the source, and pick away.

I would like to know what I did to upset the game, but seeing as it hasn't happened again, it probably isn't the end of the world.

[lyrah68]

How in the world can I, using stanzas that I EARNED, not tampering with the server, NOR altering the client, NOT grouped, NOT having anyone else "heal" my nodes, CHEAT?

How can being SMART and figuring out how to get the VERY most out of a single extraction be exploiting? I just don't get it.

I am an amatuer rock hound, I honestly truly really DO dig in real life. And there is some science to it, some pure dumb luck, and some intuition about it. As I see it, SO FAR this game is much more realistic than many others, there is genuine cause and effect. SO it only stands to reason that if I use all I know about digging, apply it to the game, apply the mechanics (stanzas) wisely that I will gain MORE per dig than if I just aimed blindly and used whatever stanzas as they came from the trainers.

How could THAT be cheating?

I mean with melee, exploiting is pretty clear. And if I was in some way altering the client or messing with the lag or something in order to gain an unfair advantage...Now that CLEARLY is cheating.

I think if there is a limit by either level...or by stanza, on the number of units of materials you can gather in ONE extraction...that is easy, STOP the extraction WITH full exp for all currently extracted materials, and give a message something like, "you have gathered as many materials as is possible with (or due to)*insert name of stanza or level that is limiting further extraction*. Then we would know WHY we are limited and how to improve to STOP the limiting.

All we HONEST players (and I am not so cinical, I include the VAST majority of the NA server in that group) want is to know the FULL rules, then we can actually follow them. Remember how old fashioned board games came with the instructions on the lid of the box, that is ALL we are asking for please.

[lyrah68]

I would imagine that if you upped the source timer, wore a HUGE set of the highest possible focus jewelery and had the best speed and rate, that this WOULD be possible.

I will try this on the ATS just to see if I can replicate it. Would you tell me what area these messages come in? was it possibly a PR specific message?

I am not asking for this info to CHEAT, but simply to find where and see if I can replicate it and report this...as I see it...BUG. If I can manage to replicate this message...using ONLY those skills that I can honestly EARN from trainers, with NO help from a higher level forager healing the nodes (I still think that we should NOT be punished for the kindnesses of others, but some would think of that as cheating), then I will report this as a BUG.