Why should anyone be able to choose a faction when doing anything???

[zumwalt]

zzei if what celest has told you is correct then the system is seriously WACKED!

You can change sides throughout the ENTIRE event, back and forth with only causing you 1 minute of time.

So if what she says is true, it is seriously wacked.

Which means, that for the first hour of an event I can be Kami aligned, then change sides for the last few minutes back to karavan aligned and get +1 karavan, -1 kami.

Sure, I can see this as a good programing thing, and a positive flaw (sarcasm)
There is no way, on this green planet, that the devs are that... deranged.

{edit}
They should put it back to what you were initially at the begining of the event!
{end edit}

[thurgond]

The patch notes mention two types of PvP. Free for all zones which for some reason is labeled Guild vs. Guild, and Event PvP. The notes describe faction modifications only for the Event PvP. Raynes 1st post in this thread talked about the faction modifications for event PvP.

I envision the PvP events as open warfare breaks out between Kami and Karavan, at least in one zone with GM controled NPC and titles and big faction boosts give out to the victors. If somenone has been to one of these on the ATS (doubt so with the population there), I'd like to hear about it.

The patch notes for zone based PvP in the roots (and in Fleetng Garden at this time) don't mention faction hits. I see this as more like duels which don't and shouldn't give faction hits.

[zumwalt]

I give up, even with Zzei talking to Celest, asking for clarity on how it works, and Zzei coming back with what I had posted was mostly correct with the modification of the fact that personal faction will change permanently based on event factions, and your still doubting it, there is nothing more I can say in regards to trying to describe it.

As far as ATS, it was all player events that we goofed off with that I participated in and saw the results from entering / exiting the pvp areas.

I appologize that I couldn't be any clearer, I am not good with describing how things work, well, as I see how they are working.

*shrugs shoulders*

Just wait for an event in Atys to occur and see what happens to your faction, before, during and after the event.

[zzeii]

From the posting it doesn't show you gaining any fame from joining an event (this isn't faction regions, actual events like the nexus or the goo incident). Only lose (temporarily) fame on the side you do not chose. If you gain/lose fame in the process of the event, that will be transfered when you leave.

An example...

I have 64 kami fame, and a 61 karavan.

At the start of the event, I join up with karavan. My fame will now be 61 karavan and -1 kami. At the end of the event (baring any changes to my fame during the event) I would have 64 kami fame and 61 karavan fame again once the event was over.

If i had gained 5 karavan fame during the event, I would leave with 66 karavan and 59 kami.

Now if I had a 99 karavan fame and a -99 kami. And if I were then to join up on the kami side, my fame would switch to -99 kami and -100 karavan. At the end of the event, I would revert to 99 karavan and -99 kami (baring any changes in fame during the event).

If I had gained 5 kami fame during the event, I would leave with a 94 karavan and -94 kami fame.

I hope this clears it up a little.

[thurgond]

Zumwalt, Zz's post came while I was composing mine.

If you can fiddle with you're permanent fame by entering or leaving an event or a PvP zone, then it's a bug/exploit and should be fixed immediately.

If the fame gain/loss for choosing a side in a PvP event is reset when the event is over, then Raynes is right and they are ignoring pre-existing fame for events and this is a bad thing.

Changing sides during an event should NOT be allowed. Programming wise it should be trivial to set the flag to a single faction for the course of the event and clear it when the event is over. If they are giving out faction bumps and title rewards to the victors, what's to stop someone from switching to the side that appears to be winning. (ok, you might not want the fame if it came with a negative to your normal alignment)

--- Miss Narr

[raynes]

From what cerest explained to me in klient this is mostly correct (you would still incur any normal fame gain/loss that was achieved during the event to your permanant fame).

Then wtf are the point of events???????? They want the story to mean something. They want peoples choices to have an effect. Yet they design the game so that the choices you do choose, don't make a damn bit of difference. Hell they even design things so you never have to make a choice. You can play all sides all the time.

Do yourselves a favor devs, just dump the fame system and the story. It's obvious that neither of them really make the least bit of difference. This is pathetic.

[raynes]

At the start of the event, I join up with karavan. My fame will now be 61 karavan and -1 kami. At the end of the event (baring any changes to my fame during the event) I would have 64 kami fame and 61 karavan fame again once the event was over.

So you fight on the opposing side... You kill the group the Kami wants you to protect.... And after the event the Kami don't see you any differently??????

So why even bother picking a side?

[josephm]

Raynes, please reread the explination. You don't get it. I don't think you don't get it. I know you don't get it. Or you don't want to get it. Reread it until your eyes bleed and you get it and stop posting poop.

That isn't wack at all. It's not terribly simple, so it's just a little fustrating. Think about it this way: Most government spies started out working for their government with some grand dream. Then they see how well off other countries are, or how corrupt theirs are, or they are corrupt and just want a huge cash payoff. So playing the field isn't totally ridiculous. You also have to earn 'trust' with the people asking you to spy, to make sure you still aren't loyal and getting their side killed etc.

Of course that means your 'fame' with the East Germans would never go back up if you side with the British. They'd kill you, and take all your spawn points.

So look at it in sports. Jordan comes back but he's on the Wizards. Bulls fans are a little upset but they're still cool with him. If he ever won a championship with those guys, he would likely pull an even higher fan base.

When the Cowboys got Sanders I was pissed because I hated the 49'rs and I thought Smith should get all that money. Sanders did alright though so I got over my bad hump with them. Bad mouthing him meant bad mouthing the Cowboys. And now Smith left the cowboys but I'm still a fan of his even though I don't watch all the games.

People have switched sides in all wars, and in many stories that people have written. In Ryzom, I can roleplay that I liked the Karavan explination better than the Kami even after I've fought for the Kami for so long. So now, I'm gonna help the Kami but I have to earn their trust...and it's gonna take the Karavan a while to figure it out so your fame decreases as they become more and more suspicious.

SO if by chance after Zzeii you think the system is still jacked after Zzeii's clarification, you are a simpleton, a fool, likely a boring person to play with. I don't mean to insult, (remember, only after clarification to those who have alread posted) but if anybody argues against this system...well I already called you names so I'll just do it in my head.

edit: Instantanious change of fame DURING an event is only to influence how the game works mechanically....like your TARGETTING SYSTEM!!!! ever think about that? eh? no? oiasdhfuiopaherf9awhefaweofh43r89afiahuf349tjaer I hate you all.

[zumwalt]

Ok, Celest is still trying to get a solid confirmation, spent like 25 minutes chatting with her myself on Klient.

As it stands right now, the understanding is as follows (and she will clerify as soon as she can get solid information)

PvP Events that are Ran by the GM's with a solid Kami / Karavan alignment.

Here is the Q/A

Q) If I choose Karavan, what is my faction at the start of the event?
A) 100 Karavan, -1 Kami

Q) Same question, but if I chose Kami?
A) 100 Kami, -1 Karavan

(Solid numbers no math)

Q) If I leave the pvp area and re-enter during the event, can I switch sides?
A) Yes

Q) What is my faction at the end of the event when its all over?
A) If no faction is given during the event by the GM, you will go back to what you were at the begining of the event.


This is what came out of the conversation I had with Celest.

We also talked about pvp in the roots, here is what came of those questions:


Q) Can I be attacked by anyone in the roots or nexus?
A) Yes

Q) So simply put, if I am harvesting and minding my own business, if someone comes along they can just smite me if they desire?
A) Yes


Then I went on to ask Celest questions about the packers


Q) What does these new packer changes mean?
A) All packers slots are increased across the board, no matter the quality of the packer.

Q) Will this mean a price increase on packers now that they can hold something like 4x the content as before?
A) Unknown at this time.

Q) Is the slots only on the high end packer or all packers?
A) All packers, or it would have been stated otherwise.


Other than our normal babble back and forth, those were the Q/A that I got out of our conversation.

Thanks again Celest for your time!

[raynes]

Raynes, please reread the explination. You don't get it. I don't think you don't get it. I know you don't get it. Or you don't want to get it. Reread it until your eyes bleed and you get it and stop posting poop.

That isn't wack at all. It's not terribly simple, so it's just a little fustrating. Think about it this way: Most government spies started out working for their government with some grand dream. Then they see how well off other countries are, or how corrupt theirs are, or they are corrupt and just want a huge cash payoff. So playing the field isn't totally ridiculous. You also have to earn 'trust' with the people asking you to spy, to make sure you still aren't loyal and getting their side killed etc.

Of course that means your 'fame' with the East Germans would never go back up if you side with the British. They'd kill you, and take all your spawn points.

So look at it in sports. Jordan comes back but he's on the Wizards. Bulls fans are a little upset but they're still cool with him. If he ever won a championship with those guys, he would likely pull an even higher fan base.

When the Cowboys got Sanders I was pissed because I hated the 49'rs and I thought Smith should get all that money. Sanders did alright though so I got over my bad hump with them. Bad mouthing him meant bad mouthing the Cowboys. And now Smith left the cowboys but I'm still a fan of his even though I don't watch all the games.

People have switched sides in all wars, and in many stories that people have written. In Ryzom, I can roleplay that I liked the Karavan explination better than the Kami even after I've fought for the Kami for so long. So now, I'm gonna help the Kami but I have to earn their trust...and it's gonna take the Karavan a while to figure it out so your fame decreases as they become more and more suspicious.

SO if by chance after Zzeii you think the system is still jacked after Zzeii's clarification, you are a simpleton, a fool, likely a boring person to play with. I don't mean to insult, (remember, only after clarification to those who have alread posted) but if anybody argues against this system...well I already called you names so I'll just do it in my head.

edit: Instantanious change of fame DURING an event is only to influence how the game works mechanically....like your TARGETTING SYSTEM!!!! ever think about that? eh? no? oiasdhfuiopaherf9awhefaweofh43r89afiahuf349tjaer I hate you all.

And obviously you don't get it.

Putting this into a real world example.

It's World War II. I am an American Soldier in Germany. If we take the way they have setup the game and put it to a battle between the Americans and Germans.

There is a battle about to happen. As an American soldier I decide I want to go fight with the Nazi's. So I run ahead to a german base, walk in and tell them I want to fight for them. They welcome me with open arms, hand me a weapon and off we go. During this battle I kill and injure some of my fellow american soldiers. The battle is over, I say bye to the Nazi's and rejoin the americans. Upon arrival they greet me like an old friend who hasn't done anything wrong at all.

Yeah that makes perfect sense!