No my characters name isn't Lyran. And FYI that was less than five MINUTES of looking on the offical web site.
This is the six month plan? Not realy much is it? Just more grind and these words "new sets of player activities" " the new content " " different types of gameplay" But they don't say what do they? And thats what I wanted to know. Arent you reading more into the information they give you than is realy there? If this is a grind game thats fine. From what youve shown me it looks like that is exactly what it is and is going to be.
Major Add-Ons
Within 6 months of the initial release, and on a 6 monthly basis thereafter, Nevrax plans to launch the first major upgrade. This upgrade will contain new major land maps, new generations of creatures, a new playable races and entire new sets of player activities. The Saga of Ryzom being a skill based game, the addition of new skills and associated actions is absolutely possible. All players will have access to the new content without having to abandon their existing characters in which they have invested their game time so far. The new skills and actions will give access to new branches of content, opening up the possibilities for different types of gameplay, opening up the game experience to an ever-increasing audience. The action sets for the existing skill trees will be extended, as will the skill trees themselves, allowing players to progress further than they had done previously. The major upgrades should require about as much play time, in order to reach the end of the character progression, as the initial release
Sheesh, I really have a hard time responding to posts like these.
First of all that was NOT the six month plan. Second of all right now we are in "Patch 2" mode, and they first posted about patch 2 plans over a month ago. Each time they say more about it than the last. But the main element most players are focusing on in Patch 2, which has its second major installment patched in tomorrow Dec 21, is the PvP.
Player vs player will be limited and much like the concept of factional or Realm vs Realm PvP in a game like Dark Age of Camelot or World of Warcraft or Anarchy Online . That means, realm PvP is limited to certain regions and you have to be of different factions/Realms to fight. Nothing that revolutionary in that except if they get it wrong.
How can they get it wrong? The main way to get it wrong is to totally trash a current "zone" , map , or region that is key to Player vs. Monster (PvM or PvE) right now. If it messes up too many quests or removes certain resources in a way that seems unfair or unbalancing then it will cause frustration. The only other major issue then is class balance, which seriously in this game doesn't really matter since we all can become anything we want and everything at anytime. Since the game also makes Buffbotting virtually impossible, since auras are group limited, short range, and limited duration ... pvp class balance is as close to being a non-issue as ever.
Ok, so ... they also a while back gave a very cursory idea of what they intended for Patch 3, I think that's as far as they went. A while back they said that they planned on a 2-3 week cycle for putting up new installments of each patch, such as Patch 2 Part 2 for Dec 21, onto Test. Then they said they planned to leave each on Test Server for two weeks. Then make any other adjustments rinse and repeat. Basically they are going for one new major Patch Part, such as Patch 2 Part 2, to be pushed to game every 4-6 weeks, say 2 months at the outside.
Now, first of all that is information on where they are going. What you are now really complaining about is something else. There isn't much more to inform us about . All new information is being more specific about what they have already previewed. Problem is after Patch 2, there really isn't a whole lot they can be specific about until they get it near to game ready with final lock.
Nevrax isn't the most informative MMORPG Dev team. But they are close. They purposefully preview things by an incomplete outline, they've said they want to retain flexibility by not posting every detail when it's in preview stage. Duh, can you guess why? If you can't, you aren't an MMORPG veteran, so not worth explaining.
After that they highlight on the next iteration of informing the players the chief goals of the changes or patch. They did that with Patch 2, saying it was mostly about faction and PvP, but would also include moving mounts out to players etc. Whether they keep up to those goals or not is a way of measuring what they do. Finally, they get much more specific within the week or so pre-patch. Fine, at that point of course doesn't really matter to some, we'll soon have the patch in-game. That's actually a sign that they tend to keep their schedule, not a knock on how informative they are.
Nevrax has begun to do TWO major things wrong.
1) The patch notes descriptions have recently become increasingly inaccurate , at least in english. Either the person proof-reading doesn't play the game or doesn't speak english, or there are too many hands touching the paper before it gets to the printer. I think it's both language and lack of knowledgeable proof-reader, they need to correct that.
2) Posting of Dev Plans needs to have one main page where it is available in all languages. Might be good to have a Dev Tracker link also that tracks all Dev Replies to all forum posts. Yes you can try and search for this. Sooner or later however you'll see the limitations of such searches. Also, every major MMORPG that is well run sooner or later creates a Dev Tracker forum link, so explain the search function all you want, sooner or later you'll have a Dev Tracker or you'll be extinct, I'm betting on the first option.
Jackmor, some of your concerns are warranted, but some I think are not.
I'll give a couple of examples now where I disagree with some of the things you said, just to be complete, since most of the above was supportive.
You mentioned the grind. All MMORPGs sooner or later hit you with the grind, in fact it's the main negative of these games. The grind requires two things. It requires a leveling function which requires experience through seemingly repetitive actions AND it requires an attitude that decides to slave away at these repetitive tasks. Generally speaking sooner or later someone says to himself the words of slavery "
" I must increase my crafting, I just have to be level 200 crafter or a Grandmaster crafter." (insert your profession or goal from crafting as needed)
That's how you grind. Grinding is therefore part mindset, it's the mindset of a willing self-motivated slave. Either do it because you decide you have to be Master Crafter/Fighter/Magician by such and such date, or cut yourself free and DON'T DO IT. There is enough variety and options in Ryzom where anybody who decides to simply Grind is an idiot.
However, I realize that what you really meant to say is that there is no heavily entertwined Quests with heavy Story and impact on your faction personally affecting you in the game. You mean to say that the grind is kill, craft, harvest, kill, task, kill, chat, kill ....
I get what you are saying, but you aren't thinking big enough, either in a NEGATIVE manner or a POSITIVE one. For the sake of argument, I'll be negative so that you can see I can agree with you, although I'll actually be disagreeing with you in the process.
Negative view ... QUESTS are repetitive. I have to go here, go there, obey the NPC, argh Argh ARGH. When one is done, there is always another quest waiting. I talk to the NPC , I get a stupid story although that may be the best part, I run around some, I kill something or craft something or talk to another NPC. Argh, he may or may not be on my map, I get to see how sooner or later I've seen every hairstyle and facial feature and breast size in the game. I get killed a lot while avoiding monsters as I fetch and return. I lose connection and doh ... I forget where I am by the time I'm moved back to the point of last server location, yadda yadda yadda.
Questing is a grind. See, it's attitude AND it is truth. Games are at their essence usually a series of similar tasks oft repeated.
Most Quest systems in most MMORPGs and even most single player games are limited and lousy. If you get a scripted fight scene or some real long-term impact on your NPC faction, that's a bonus. Half Life gives you some of that and it's varied ... but guess what it's still a damn FPS with kill, kill, kill, run, evade, dodge, talk, cut-scene, kill, kill, kill, another cut scene and cool scripted event, kill ... etc
Same is true from the descriptions of World of Warcraft. Yes it has some nice story backgrounds to the quests sometimes, but they are usually in text. Hail the text in a 3D game, YAY! They have occasionally scripted events or mini battles etc, I'm all for that, but it's still a scripted event or mini-battle , boo, boo boo.
Get my point? If you do the game too much or a part of the game too much, if you never use your imagination or if you never care enough about the other minor impacts on your faction, your NPC purchase/sell price, your fame that allows you to port with the Kami/Karavan, or maybe even one day enter Patch 3's FamousOnlyRegionAndBarAndEmporium .... you are gonna grind, grind, grind ... and grind your teeth.
MMORPGs are boring. Games are boring. By that thinking, Tennis is a grind and boring. You play enough tennis on hard-courts and you may blow out your knees, your elbow, lose a lot of weight, become fit (except that you have no knees and elbow), meet a lot of dogs that chase after green balls and love you for it or crap on your lawn they love you, find out that life is unfair when you lose a match to a bozo, learn about gamesmanship, get to see a lot of babes (yay), realize that the babes are too often playing tennis and so not dating enough (boo), find out that the babes you meet really have a life but can't play so you get hit by overhead smashes in the nuts (boo), find out that the babe can really play but thinks her private life also has to be Martina Navratilova's (boo), and on it goes.
Life is a grind, but everything matters often in unknown ways. Nevrax is a grind because ...
1) we think we know everything and it's even more boring than life or ....
2) we think we don't know everything and it's just a game or ...
3) it's not tough enough and without risk there is no reward so why can't I get a heart attack or ...
4) it's too easy and so I'm bored and after my heart attack relaxation works better with a beer and a nurse massaging my shoulder.
You can't win when you parse the moments. You go broke watching the sunset and then you miss that analyzing your weakness trying to psychoanalyze the Thoreau in your personality.
You can't win when you parse the theme. You know how to get somewhere but once you get there you don't remember anything wonderful as a memory or even how you got there, just the theory.
You can't win.
Who said it was about winning?
What is a win?
To win is to grind. To pwn another is to grind.
How to pretend to avoid the grind in 25 steps or less? Read the following rules. In general the rules are simple:
A) Don't play one game too much.
B) Don't play the game when it begins to matter.
C) Don't expect creators to tell you everything.
D) Don't expect not to complain. Complaining is meant to help you and the game. If it doesn't achieve it, relax and move on or just do somethign else for a while. It has been said that disappointment is simply a motivation to create, fix, invent, or destroy. Well, three out of four isn't bad. Without the fourth, who would have ever invented Doom 3.
Then understand the following corrolaries.
-- Computer games are over-rated. Fact. For relaxation they draw you in via their limited interactivity and instant gratification or instant annoyance. Fact. Sounds a heck of a lot like an addiction waiting to happen, eh?
-- Physically, all MMORPGs and any computer game is a grind on your physical well-being.
-- Emotionally, all posting in forums is a grind on your emotional well-being.
-- The more involved you get in anything, without significant variety outside the field of endeavour, the more you will find it a grinding pain in the upper fleshy part of the hip region.
-- Life is more than mental activity and hand to eye coordination.
-- Life is not a simulation. If such a simulation existed it would cost more and still be a grind.
-- So ... if I may just say all that I'm just saying that you can't really remove the grind out of an MMORPG.
-- The reason is this ... given time and effort we always learn how to insert the grind into anything. If the grind were a dance, we would all be hip.
And finally the sell-out line:
We aren't hip, that's just your behind and mine saying so.
-----
I wish you well.
Last edited by hubba1 on Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Edited chiefly to clarify that Tennis is a grind
hubba1 wrote:Sheesh, I really have a hard time responding to posts like these.
First of all that was NOT the six month plan. Second of all right now we are in "Patch 2" mode, and they first posted about patch 2 plans over a month ago. Each time they say more about it than the last. But the main element most players are focusing on in Patch 2, which has its second major installment patched in tomorrow Dec 21, is the PvP.
Player vs player will be limited and much like the concept of factional or Realm vs Realm PvP in a game like Dark Age of Camelot or World of Warcraft or Anarchy Online . That means, realm PvP is limited to certain regions and you have to be of different factions/Realms to fight. Nothing that revolutionary in that except if they get it wrong.
How can they get it wrong? The main way to get it wrong is to totally trash a current "zone" , map , or region that is key to Player vs. Monster (PvM or PvE) right now. If it messes up too many quests or removes certain resources in a way that seems unfair or unbalancing then it will cause frustration. The only other major issue then is class balance, which seriously in this game doesn't really matter since we all can become anything we want and everything at anytime. Since the game also makes Buffbotting virtually impossible, since auras are group limited, short range, and limited duration ... pvp class balance is as close to being a non-issue as ever.
Ok, so ... they also a while back gave a very cursory idea of what they intended for Patch 3, I think that's as far as they went. A while back they said that they planned on a 2-3 week cycle for putting up new installments of each patch, such as Patch 2 Part 2 for Dec 21, onto Test. Then they said they planned to leave each on Test Server for two weeks. Then make any other adjustments rinse and repeat. Basically they are going for one new major Patch Part, such as Patch 2 Part 2, to be pushed to game every 4-6 weeks, say 2 months at the outside.
Now, first of all that is information on where they are going. What you are now really complaining about is something else. There isn't much more to inform us about . All new information is being more specific about what they have already previewed. Problem is after Patch 2, there really isn't a whole lot they can be specific about until they get it near to game ready with final lock.
Nevrax isn't the most informative MMORPG Dev team. But they are close. They purposefully preview things by an incomplete outline, they've said they want to retain flexibility by not posting every detail when it's in preview stage. Duh, can you guess why? If you can't, you aren't an MMORPG veteran, so not worth explaining.
After that they highlight on the next iteration of informing the players the chief goals of the changes or patch. They did that with Patch 2, saying it was mostly about faction and PvP, but would also include moving mounts out to players etc. Whether they keep up to those goals or not is a way of measuring what they do. Finally, they get much more specific within the week or so pre-patch. Fine, at that point of course doesn't really matter to some, we'll soon have the patch in-game. That's actually a sign that they tend to keep their schedule, not a knock on how informative they are.
Nevrax has begun to do TWO major things wrong.
1) The patch notes descriptions have recently become increasingly inaccurate , at least in english. Either the person proof-reading doesn't play the game or doesn't speak english, or there are too many hands touching the paper before it gets to the printer. I think it's both language and lack of knowledgeable proof-reader, they need to correct that.
2) Posting of Dev Plans needs to have one main page where it is available in all languages. Might be good to have a Dev Tracker link also that tracks all Dev Replies to all forum posts. Yes you can try and search for this. Sooner or later however you'll see the limitations of such searches. Also, every major MMORPG that is well run sooner or later creates a Dev Tracker forum link, so explain the search function all you want, sooner or later you'll have a Dev Tracker or you'll be extinct, I'm betting on the first option.
Jackmor, some of your concerns are warranted, but some I think are not.
I'll give a couple of examples now where I disagree with some of the things you said, just to be complete, since most of the above was supportive.
You mentioned the grind. All MMORPGs sooner or later hit you with the grind, in fact it's the main negative of these games. The grind requires two things. It requires a leveling function which requires experience through seemingly repetitive actions AND it requires an attitude that decides to slave away at these repetitive tasks. Generally speaking sooner or later someone says to himself the words of slavery "
" I must increase my crafting, I just have to be level 200 crafter or a Grandmaster crafter." (insert your profession or goal from crafting as needed)
That's how you grind. Grinding is therefore part mindset, it's the mindset of a willing self-motivated slave. Either do it because you decide you have to be Master Crafter/Fighter/Magician by such and such date, or cut yourself free and DON'T DO IT. There is enough variety and options in Ryzom where anybody who decides to simply Grind is an idiot.
However, I realize that what you really meant to say is that there is no heavily entertwined Quests with heavy Story and impact on your faction personally affecting you in the game. You mean to say that the grind is kill, craft, harvest, kill, task, kill, chat, kill ....
I get what you are saying, but you aren't thinking big enough, either in a NEGATIVE manner or a POSITIVE one. For the sake of argument, I'll be negative so that you can see I can agree with you, although I'll actually be disagreeing with you in the process.
Negative view ... QUESTS are repetitive. I have to go here, go there, obey the NPC, argh Argh ARGH. When one is done, there is always another quest waiting. I talk to the NPC , I get a stupid story although that may be the best part, I run around some, I kill something or craft something or talk to another NPC. Argh, he may or may not be on my map, I get to see how sooner or later I've seen every hairstyle and facial feature and breast size in the game. I get killed a lot while avoiding monsters as I fetch and return. I lose connection and doh ... I forget where I am by the time I'm moved back to the point of last server location, yadda yadda yadda.
Questing is a grind. See, it's attitude AND it is truth. Games are at their essence usually a series of similar tasks oft repeated.
Most Quest systems in most MMORPGs and even most single player games are limited and lousy. If you get a scripted fight scene or some real long-term impact on your NPC faction, that's a bonus. Half Life gives you some of that and it's varied ... but guess what it's still a damn FPS with kill, kill, kill, run, evade, dodge, talk, cut-scene, kill, kill, kill, another cut scene and cool scripted event, kill ... etc
Same is true from the descriptions of World of Warcraft. Yes it has some nice story backgrounds to the quests sometimes, but they are usually in text. Hail the text in a 3D game, YAY! They have occasionally scripted events or mini battles etc, I'm all for that, but it's still a scripted event or mini-battle , boo, boo boo.
Get my point? If you do the game too much or a part of the game too much, if you never use your imagination or if you never care enough about the other minor impacts on your faction, your NPC purchase/sell price, your fame that allows you to port with the Kami/Karavan, or maybe even one day enter Patch 3's FamousOnlyRegionAndBarAndEmporium .... you are gonna grind, grind, grind ... and grind your teeth.
MMORPGs are boring. Games are boring. By that thinking, Tennis is a grind and boring. You play enough tennis on hard-courts and you may blow out your knees, your elbow, lose a lot of weight, become fit (except that you have no knees and elbow), meet a lot of dogs that chase after green balls and love you for it or crap on your lawn they love you, find out that life is unfair when you lose a match to a bozo, learn about gamesmanship, get to see a lot of babes (yay), realize that the babes are too often playing tennis and so not dating enough (boo), find out that the babes you meet really have a life but can't play so you get hit by overhead smashes in the nuts (boo), find out that the babe can really play but thinks her private life also has to be Martina Navratilova's (boo), and on it goes.
Life is a grind, but everything matters often in unknown ways. Nevrax is a grind because ... 1) we think we know everything and it's even more boring than life or ....
2) we think we don't know everything and it's just a game or ...
3) it's not tough enough and without risk there is no reward so why can't I get a heart attack or ...
4) it's too easy and so I'm bored and after my heart attack relaxation works better with a beer and a nurse massaging my shoulder.
You can't win when you parse the moments. You go broke watching the sunset and then you miss that analyzing your weakness trying to psychoanalyze the Thoreau in your personality.
You can't win when you parse the theme. You know how to get somewhere but once you get there you don't remember anything wonderful as a memory or even how you got there, just the theory.
You can't win.
Who said it was about winning?
What is a win?
To win is to grind. To pwn another is to grind.
How to pretend to avoid the grind in 25 steps or less? Read the following rules. In general the rules are simple:
A) Don't play one game too much.
B) Don't play the game when it begins to matter.
C) Don't expect creators to tell you everything.
D) Don't expect not to complain. Complaining is meant to help you and the game. If it doesn't achieve it, relax and move on or just do somethign else for a while. It has been said that disappointment is simply a motivation to create, fix, invent, or destroy. Well, three out of four isn't bad. Without the fourth, who would have ever invented Doom 3.
Then understand the following corrolaries.
-- Computer games are over-rated. Fact. For relaxation they draw you in via their limited interactivity and instant gratification or instant annoyance. Fact. Sounds a heck of a lot like an addiction waiting to happen, eh?
-- Physically, all MMORPGs and any computer game is a grind on your physical well-being.
-- Emotionally, all posting in forums is a grind on your emotional well-being.
-- The more involved you get in anything, without significant variety outside the field of endeavour, the more you will find it a grinding pain in the upper fleshy part of the hip region.
-- Life is more than mental activity and hand to eye coordination.
-- Life is not a simulation. If such a simulation existed it would cost more and still be a grind.
-- So ... if I may just say all that I'm just saying that you can't really remove the grind out of an MMORPG.
-- The reason is this ... given time and effort we always learn how to insert the grind into anything. If the grind were a dance, we would all be hip.
And finally the sell-out line:
We aren't hip, that's just your behind and mine saying so. -----
I wish you well.
Suicide is painless and I can take or leave it if I please......
Een
Matis Forager, Armourer and Weapon Crafter
Jack of all trades master of none.
[QUOTE=hubba1]Sheesh, I really have a hard time responding to posts like these.
Thanks for spending the time to write your post. You addressed the issues very well and im satisfied with what you said about the game. I seem to be giving people the wronge impression. So Im going stop adding to these posts.
Just ending here with a few final words. I don't play the game too much. I do have other interests. Im having fun writing in the forum. Its winter here in New England so Im stuck in the house with too much time on my hands.
cerest wrote:Don't be so insensitive. Think before you post please.
Not sure if you know it or not, but that is a line from the themesong from the Movie MASH. Not him being a jerk. But yes, some of the younger generation might not have seen the Mash TV show everyday for the last five years on reruns.
lyrah68 wrote:Not sure if you know it or not, but that is a line from the themesong from the Movie MASH. Not him being a jerk. But yes, some of the younger generation might not have seen the Mash TV show everyday for the last five years on reruns.
I actually do know where it comes from. But that doesn't mean it's approprate because it's from a song.
