karavan kicks kami butt!

[josephm]

The game is a little early for elite groups and maneuvers. Everyone wants to be a hero. I just want a Hero sandwich. I'm hungry....Karavan Hero sandwich mmm Kami Ribeye Sandwich...

One thing I don't get..is that given limited visiblity due to clip/landscape how anyone gets credit for 'finding' a monster. I mean technically you are all just stumbling around.
Credit for Gfunk for making up a plan. Everyone has a plan though so same credit to them. If you want to be a real hero, get your guild organized with people who know how to win. put the malcontents in another group and let them hassle eachother for a while. They'll come around. I maybe be harvesting but If I'm not I follow orders, and when I'm in a position to give orders I expect them followed. It really comes down to respect and a mutual wish to advance. Everyone gets a turn at the game. 2 wipes, ok Alpha list for leader....know what I mean?

This just comes from playing with a room full of DaoC'rs back in the day, we all helped each other and admired each other for our unique abilities. That's what guilds are for when you aren't sitting in a room together. I'm sure guilds with team speak could do even better.

[draggi]

Despite the confusion and failures it was still fun. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes next time around ;D.

-Fist

Finally someone with good sportsmanship

[draggi]

we won, i bragged. simple lol

kthxbye

How nice it will be if there is someone in the game interested in singing/storytelling the deeeds of all the Kami and Karavan heroes who sacrificed their life (though not really a very big sacrifice as Jena always resurrect them for their devotion) to save Atys from the Kitins.

[draggi]

And if you remember, we won. If we're going to bicker and place blame, can we at least do it when we're unsuccessful?

I beg to differ though I did not take part in the defence (still too new). Even though you win, it will be best to analyse the mistakes and problems faced so that next time, they will not resurface

[dbaum23]

Personally, I think Jivalax may be on to something with these events. I do think there might be some staging as far as these events go as far as outcomes. You can't have Kami win all, nor Karavan. So I'd think the next event should be pretty even considering its 1/1 so far for factions. I do congratulate the Karavan on winning the last event though. I was in the Kami group and we were basically 2 or more groups at times following one minute and doing our own thing the next minute and getting killed. If we'd of stuck together we'd of made it to the boss easily I think. We got swarmed by mobs early on the tryke north and easily handled the early groups. But the farther north we got the more we spread out and disaster struck.

[thexdane]

Personally, I think Jivalax may be on to something with these events. I do think there might be some staging as far as these events go as far as outcomes. You can't have Kami win all, nor Karavan. So I'd think the next event should be pretty even considering its 1/1 so far for factions. I do congratulate the Karavan on winning the last event though. I was in the Kami group and we were basically 2 or more groups at times following one minute and doing our own thing the next minute and getting killed. If we'd of stuck together we'd of made it to the boss easily I think. We got swarmed by mobs early on the tryke north and easily handled the early groups. But the farther north we got the more we spread out and disaster struck.

yes i think it was stacked in one side's favour. if you look at the facts here

the boss was 200 or less from the karavan side at this event

last event the karavan had a 5 min swim and was given the wrong directions towards the leader, we found them but not till close to the end. not sure what the kami side had to go through to get to the event

while i think it's easier to have the same story line on all servers i'm sure the devs took into account that this might not happen

[parisg]

One thing that was totally neglected is tasking different groups. As it was, everybody was basically frantically hitting anything in the way. I did manage to get a couple of hits on the boss but I didnt do anything that was worth being called damage.

I then concentrated on the smaller kinchers and other bugs that were drawn in (called by the boss?) and had much more success. Given the damage output, even small kinchers can wreak havoc in a group if undealt with.

While I understand that healers should concentrate on everybody I would have liked to see some separation into light/heavy infantery with different tasks.

[tetra]

While I understand that healers should concentrate on everybody I would have liked to see some separation into light/heavy infantery with different tasks.

With current game mechanics/interface, It's very close to impossible for healers to concentrate on anyone but the 8 other folks in their group. When in a large battle, or even small ones very often, you will find that 'target my target's target' doesn't work to get a target lock on who the mob is attacking. It's very difficult to select individual players with the mouse in large groups, and even worse you can't rely on the HP bars above someone's head with any reliability since they are delayed or outright wrong half the time.

Tack on the fact that since patch 1 healing has almost become a game of CH CH CH CH CH CH CH where you want a CH for normal healing, and a CH for rez>full style healing.... and you have things even more difficult since you are rarely going to be healing any one single target for long. To tack on another fun aspect of the new CH CH CH Rez>CH CH healing style, we also have the 'little' problem of the target being unselected when they die or get rezzed... meaning that if you arent in that group... then you aren't likely to target them again easily.

With raids like the other night, rather than somewhat organized ones like the trips around the world, you have even more fun however... because there are so many mobs that mostly just spawn on/around the group, and so many lower level fighters that can't hope to taunt the mobs... or worse high level fighters complaining that they taunt the mob and get the taunt succeeded messages, but the mob takes 2 more attacks on whoever it was turning into a paste before turning to them.... So you have healers trying to CH>Rez>retarget>retarget cause a lowbie rezzed him but he has like 10 hp>retarget cause he died instantly>retarget cause you rezzed him and he might need healing again.

With a mass of 54 people (54 / by 9 without leftovers), it's not one group of 54, it's 6 groups of 9 and it handles like 6 groups of 9.

[jivalax]

I don't want to spend a great deal of time saying how great Gfunk is ... I do like him greatly, but there were many who helped lead the Karavan side in this event. Gfunk got to be in the front and so takes much undeserved blame/credit. Fact is unless you have great experience leading very large groups of untrained personnel it is all but impossible to get any organization out of them. A suggestion was made that some sneaking would have been the right course of action, and I agree. If you can show me how you can take 100+ people who don't know each other and don't respect your authority over them and sneak them through an area you don't know, you are a leader of Napoleonic skill, and you are wasting your time on a game, get out there and take over the world. For the rest of us, we may function well in guilds and groups, but guild and group dynamics are completely different than invasion dynamics. I can lead a group to do anything, I can guide my guild to accomplish any task they are capable of, but I cannot lead a group the size we had for this event in any semi organized way. Neither can Gfunk, but he did try. I will not join Gfunks guild, but I am proud to be a friend and ally to Gfunk and VVV. I will not let Gfunk lead my guild outings, but when we have an interguild event I do not hesitate to let him lead. He has done so in the past and will again in the future.

The biggest asset of Gfunk leading however is that he knows he does not know it all. He takes suggestions and advice from other competitant sources in the group. The rouge group (and I am thankfull they did find the boss) did not say "hey we will go scout for you" they said something akin to "You all are wrong and only we are smart enough to know what is going on. Follow us." I personally, would rather die beside someone who respects me, than live beside someone who does not.

Soapbox asside, groups over just a few people will not be organized unless they all train together in the same manner (see any military in the world). Since we will never get everyone to follow one leader and all train the same way, large groups will always be disorganized. Events such as what we have had will never be much more than gangs, nor should they be. The best that can reasonably be hoped for is a couple of self organized teams (like a scouting party and a main task force).

[thexdane]

I don't want to spend a great deal of time saying how great Gfunk is ... I do like him greatly, but there were many who helped lead the Karavan side in this event. Gfunk got to be in the front and so takes much undeserved blame/credit. Fact is unless you have great experience leading very large groups of untrained personnel it is all but impossible to get any organization out of them. A suggestion was made that some sneaking would have been the right course of action, and I agree. If you can show me how you can take 100+ people who don't know each other and don't respect your authority over them and sneak them through an area you don't know, you are a leader of Napoleonic skill, and you are wasting your time on a game, get out there and take over the world. For the rest of us, we may function well in guilds and groups, but guild and group dynamics are completely different than invasion dynamics. I can lead a group to do anything, I can guide my guild to accomplish any task they are capable of, but I cannot lead a group the size we had for this event in any semi organized way. Neither can Gfunk, but he did try. I will not join Gfunks guild, but I am proud to be a friend and ally to Gfunk and VVV. I will not let Gfunk lead my guild outings, but when we have an interguild event I do not hesitate to let him lead. He has done so in the past and will again in the future.

i won't let him lead me nor will my guild let him lead us. thing is groups are easy to command, you kinda have to have the respect of your troops to do so. also large groups handle the same way as smaller groups, just have to tread carefully.

as for getting them to listen, you make them listen. thing is he's getting a lot balme because he deserves it. case in point he "lead us" during the last even, we didn't make it 20 fee from the bb portal, Zzei lead us and we got to the cute and gibbai leader.

The biggest asset of Gfunk leading however is that he knows he does not know it all. He takes suggestions and advice from other competitant sources in the group. The rouge group (and I am thankfull they did find the boss) did not say "hey we will go scout for you" they said something akin to "You all are wrong and only we are smart enough to know what is going on. Follow us." I personally, would rather die beside someone who respects me, than live beside someone who does not.

ever thought they knew what they were doing? if you look at gfunk's pics there is one pic where it says "we should follow melinoe" and where DoubleTap is saying "i'll pull the boss out"

thing is melinoe had found the boss not long after they got there.

Soapbox asside, groups over just a few people will not be organized unless they all train together in the same manner (see any military in the world). Since we will never get everyone to follow one leader and all train the same way, large groups will always be disorganized. Events such as what we have had will never be much more than gangs, nor should they be. The best that can reasonably be hoped for is a couple of self organized teams (like a scouting party and a main task force).

agreed there needs to be better leadership and training