Why is PvP such a huge issue on NA server?

[marct]

It seems that the other server communties really don't have the same facination with the incoming PvP that the North American community does. Are u really that concerned that Nevrax will screw it up that much?

I think PvP is really an issue of the community and as a whole I have found everyone quite friendly. And in the end this is what will make or break PvP.

As a side note, I imagine this would increase your desire to team/guild/support your allies.

-----------
Noinossalg
Matis - NA server
OmegaV
et longue vie au Peuple OmegaV!

[xenofur]

erm, the na community isn't half as vocal and negative about pvp as the german one is <_<

[neofuzz]

I don't think it is such a huge issue for most of us. It just seems that way because those who are content with the progression of the game are far less likely to visit the forum and post... in comparison with those who are disgruntled and wish to change everything to reflect their own ideal vision of what an mmo should be.

[jdiegel]

PvP can bring out the online worst in some people. Alot of people who have played other games where PvP was a big factor have found that they would rather not deal with those people. As a result, they tend not to take part in PvP. Hence, some of those people would rather not see certain aspects of PvP that may be coming since that would force them to interact with people they would rather not deal with. In order not to, those same people would have to completely avoid several big zones within the game.

[thesiren]

I can't help but wonder if part or most of the reason behind this is to slow down harvesting of supreme PR mats. I mean, some foragers just won't go down there to avoid the PvP, while even the ones that do will be slowed from foraging what with having to fight other players, good grief. It looks like yet another way to nerf foraging in my eyes; sorry if that offends anyone, but it's how I feel. SoR, at least on Windermeer in Matis which is where my L103 Forest Forager spends the bulk of her time (and we have the arena in Matis!), is not a heavily-PvP-based game by a longshot that I have seen, and I've been playing steadily almost every day since launch.

[josephm]

You mess with Baldy, level 60ish fight and healing, 115 harvest, and you're kincher bait any time I see you on. Enuff said.

[lyrah68]

***there are many types of people, I am not pretending to be a psychiatrist or to be listing ALL of the points of view or kinds of people/players, just the ones that I end up seeing ALOT as I beta test/play in various MOG's***

If you haven't seen a person that is GREAT at pretending to be civilized and respectable but actually lives two lives...well you just would have to see it.

I have known Suit and tie men to do things in their private time that if KNOWN at work...would get them fired at the very least.

Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde was written for a VERY real reason, the human psyce is NOT the well mapped thing that we THINK it is.

Plus...NO one is as good a judge of character as they think they are.


I have seen it...game is going GREAT during closed beta...pvp is in game, but the betas are too busy leveling and testing bugs to even THINK about bashing each other around.

THEN the open beta starts, and the griefing escalates, so...a guild or two spends a NIGHT or two at KNOWN griefer hot spots (kinda like reverse stings where female cops play hookers to nab the Johns and about as effective, as SOON as the sting is over, the cops win by having VIDEO on the 5pm news of ALL the blurred out faces of all the Johns that they nabbed, the Johns are back out on the street before the ink on the legal paperwork is even dry, and the hookers have their streets back by the next night, maybe TWO days pay lost...tops. Everyone wins...except the public) same thing happens when the protector guilds pack up and go back to life as usual. The griefers set up camp again, and people get used to it. And once again the public gets the shaft.

There are MANY law abiding citizens that would obey the laws of the land...even with NO cops, NO military and NO courts...but I dare say that MANY citizens are held to civility by NOTHING but the cops, the military and the courts. Without those things, I shudder to think what life would be like for the young, the weak or disabled, or the old, it certainly would NOT be the stuff of a PG 13 movie, more like an NC17 with a BIG warning on the first page along the lines of do NOT watch if you have a weak heart or a weak stomach. Some of these less noble citizens are drug addicted, some have mental conditions, MANY of them are invisable, how many times have we heard "he kept to himself, REAL quiet, nice guy when you did deal with him" or "he just wasn't the type to do those things, real family man, held a good job, was a boy scout troup leader, a mason, went to church three times a WEEK. WOW! he just couldn't have done this!".

I try to have a rosey view of the average individual, but I also have a realistic view. Most people aren't TOO different from a room full of preschoolers left in a room ALONE with a cookie jar, in FULL view, and only JUST out of reach. I would BET good money that that jar would be EMPTY before the adults got back to it...what would you bet.

Also...of EVERY game I have betaed...PVP has ended up TOP topic for at LEAST six weeks at SOME point in the game. Even in Horizons...which stated at the START of ALPHA testing IN house ONLY, on their web site, on their boxes at release...that "PVP has been taken OFF the feature list and there are NO future plans to add it EVER" (emphasis NOT added by author, but was actually on the beta forums Faq)...PVP turned into a SERIOUS nasty troll/flame fest. If there was ONE PVP post there had to have been WELL into the triple digits of them on EVERY game I have betaed, no matter WHAT country the target audience was, no matter the AGE of the target audience and no matter in what country the game was developed/released from.

I can wrap up the attitudes on PVP:
Carebear-Fluffy bunny sweetness and light...Glenda the good witch would see this one and YACK they are SO sweet. They do NOT want to pvp, and would more than likely either RUN or stand there and die rather than draw blood if another player were to attack them. They want either a seperate PVP server, arenas, an Off/on toggle or NO pvp PERIOD. This person's ANTI PVP stance might be motivated by FEAR, ethical personal views against murder or the like, or something that even THEY don't quite understand....

OR they are social/explorer/crafter player types that see PVP as a MAJOR hinderance to their need for a social order that makes such a player type MUCH easier to fullfill. How can you help someone when they want to put a dagger in your back or...when you are helping them you and they get killed by a kid with a grudge.

Think about it, what happens in a FULL out WHOLE army WORLD war, other than people dying (as horrid as this is...not our topic at the moment), materials to make things OTHER than war effort items become rare, prices SKYROCKET, rationing is possible... making it HARD to be social since you have to buy gas to get around to see your friends...OR your friends are dying in the war, or those friends are serving in the war, business could either BLOSSOM or crash. And Order and predictablity IS disturbed for the Carebear/pacifist type during war times...IN game and out. This can be truly threatening to the Carebear.

The TRUE PVPER (MY opinion here, take it as THAT and not a blooming thing else)- This person is very well ballanced, even headed person in real life. He might be into sports, or something VERY competive, might even be a salesman in a CUT throat kinda sales world. This person LIVES for challange, I would suspect addrinaline addiction, and thrill seeking. (passtime as a cliff climber, cliff diver, sky diver, RADICAL full out skiier is a REAL possiblity.) This person also sees the rules as needed, even if he doesn't exactly agree with all of them...all of the time.
*OR
Alternatively this player is a TRUE Role Player and just can NOT see the world working as written if PVP is NOT in game. This person KNOWS the story line, maybe even better than the guy that WROTE it. This person is IN character ALOT...maybe even most of the time. (this person is also almost as likely as the above PVPer to be JUST as sane and well ballanced. Role playing is an outlet for this person...much like some golf or play racquette ball to relieve stress.) This person is likely motivated more by creativity, might be into the arts, the theater, or even be an artist/musician or actor himself. He might play a GOODIE Goodie role in game or be the SCUM of the game, the lowest of evil on the pecking order, either a Shadowknight or Necro. I have known a few of these types that intentional stretched their IN game character to as FAR outside of their REAL personality as they possibly could...for the challenge. Since this Role player is SO rule oriented and turned ON by a challenge, he views the PVP rules much like the rules of chess...how can I stick to the VERY letter of these rules and still play my character as well as I can, and maybe win a few battles while I am at it.

In MANY ways these TRUE PVPers are very alike, just motivated by different reasoning.


And then there is...
Your stereo typical teen aged boy with NO girlfriend, FEW if any real friends only a FEW aquaintances and a HUGE chip on his Hormonally flooded shoulder. This is your victim of *fill in the horror that is common in the 11 to 16 yo world here* maybe his griefer Ganker acting out will keep him from taking Daddy's gun and mowing down half his school, and maybe it is just a training ground...only the ATF and FBI psychiatrists will be able to tell you...after the fact. I take THIS one REALLY seriously, this child's bulley/victim issues are genuine, but his actions are as wrong as can be.

Teen aged guy number two, this is the thrill junkie as a teen (one of the many options thrill addicts have for outlet, not the best mind you...and not the ONLY option. the thrill addict MIGHT be the jock that doesn't behave like a horse's rump as a teen), he may or may NOT have good parents that keep this bulleying to IN game only, and those parents MIGHT pull the plug on the game IF or WHEN they are contacted by GM's or forum mods.

This kid picks on the weaker or geekier or Lamer kids for the HIGH he gets.

Do I HATE the griefer/ganker...I wish I could, sure would make dealing with them easier. I don't know why some kids go the route of acting out, and others turn to writing, acting, band, singing, sports or ANY of a MILLION outlets for the RAGE that builds up just trying to mind your own BEES wax and get from Home to school, from class to class to class, to lunch, to home again with SOME vestage of self respect.

To me open PVP with NO consequences just sends people the WRONG messages, there are MUCH more creative ways to express your desire to hand some JERK his heart on a platinum platter, with a nice merlot, than to kill him...or his character in a game.

Like maybe get on the OPPOSITE faction team and help slaughter his guild in OPEN and declared war. Paint, draw, write, Paintball, talk to SOMEONE to express your frustrations and possibly end the intollerable in your real life.

I don't like dealing with the Doom 3 crowd, I don't play such games as I see them as FUTILE. And this is what I see the griefer/ganker crowd as..Doom mentalities.

Main reason that I LOVE this community IN game and out is the relative maturity level, which I perceive as more than relatively high. I honestly see OPEN, non concentual, consequence free PVP as distructive to this community and I see it as an opening for ONE ganker to Instant message his friends list about the "NEW PVP rage" he just "found". One becomes five, becomes 50. His friends tell their friends tell THEIR friends ad nauseum until this game turns into an EQ Zek server before the level limits, in other words one HUGE reeking SEWER.

I want to keep loving this game, and I do NOT mind PVP. But I don't want to be forced to tollerate the intollerable. I will not deal with being the victim, nor will I react to the CHANCE that I MIGHT be (leveling melee to HIGH 100's and running around in packs of 20 friendlies). I am done living like that, in game or out.

[thexdane]

wow well worded lyrah and i agree with most of it, some things i'd add more than i'd say "you're wrong"

one thing i'd add is sometimes people want a change in their life, so a rp game can be said outlet. it's a bit of a release for someone to be a "greifer" or an evil char. that's what it is for me when i rp an evil char.

thing is pvp can be good and it can be bad, most "greifers" are roleplaying EVIL characters. i think that's something poeple don't realize. i guess everyone assumes people play good chars or if they do play d&d they don't understand the evil alignment

i mean say i kill a person, heal them, kill them again and so forth. i'm being evil, no nice person in their right mind would do something like that. a good char would never pvp, unless attacked first

i don't mind pvp but there should be a way to con other players but if not i guess it's a crap shoot when you attack someone.

so for all those wondering why greifers exists IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE EVIL

[madnak]

most "greifers" are roleplaying EVIL characters.

I disagree. In my experience most griefers aren't into RP, and most evil role-players are very nice OOC (and are even willing to "take the mask off" if things get too personal). Also many Ryzom players aren't interested in role play. I'm a believer in consensual RP of all kinds, but nonconsensual RP is a different thing entirely.

[jdiegel]

thing is pvp can be good and it can be bad, most "greifers" are roleplaying EVIL characters.

Horse pucky.