Pvp or no pvp balanced questions

[xcomvic]

The idea of a seperate server is beside the point. The pvp in the roots seams to bother a few people. But, I can see why they chose the roots.

It is relativly unused by most players atm. (kind of an exclusive club). Open pvp would encourage others to go there to protect they forage sites.

I can imagine it turning into somthing like the hunting territories of the american indians, unwritten, overlaping, losely enforced and fiercely protected.

It could be pretty cool. If your guild and their allies hold an area/territory.

then it would turn out like an EXACT Shadowbane... trust me we do not want to go there.... and I am ALL for PvP....

[tinpony]

Dp is easy enough to work work off if you keep your forage near your level of fight. Takes me roughly an hour to clear out my max dp foraging. Once you hit max, who cares about dieing to mobs any more?

I think in that statement assumptions are made that everyone *wants* to be a fighter. Part of the beauty of SoR for me is that it allows non-combat characters to exist, such as a forager/healer. I was with a group where three L100+ healers were joking about finding a suckling yubo to heal to death because they really didn't have the skills to do anything else in combat (and they had no interest in developing those skills).

Every patch, it seems to me, serves to make the player base more homogeneous. Easy enough to say 'welll then just join a guild', 'just play when your guildmates are on', 'don't go there', 'go there with a guard', 'don't go solo, do everything in a group', 'just be a fighter'. And again, in my opinion, you just set up homogeneous content where everyone plays the same character on the same path the same way. The only difference becomes *when* you take up certain skills, not *if*.

Given the state of the roots right now, it would probably be okay in the roots even with open PvP. They're not overly crowded. However, with all the caravans going through the roots, more and more people have teleporter access to the areas.

I think combat is way too unbalanced to support any open PvP at this point. A level 50 mage could kill me before I got my sword equipped if I'm in mid-harvest. There are no magic resists implimented yet a number of melee resists. I'm not going to cower in the corner at every unknown name, or give up my spot just because someone I don't know decides to wander into the area. Up to this point, PR harvesters have been a pretty tight bunch, willing to share sources and guide others through. It'd be a shame to damage that mentality just so someone can run around thinking it's their right to kill people over an ideology they probably follow nowhere *but* in a PvP setting and which becomes nothing more than a flimsy justification for griefing people (in some cases).

Tin.

[zzeii]

I think in that statement assumptions are made that everyone *wants* to be a fighter. Part of the beauty of SoR for me is that it allows non-combat characters to exist, such as a forager/healer. I was with a group where three L100+ healers were joking about finding a suckling yubo to heal to death because they really didn't have the skills to do anything else in combat (and they had no interest in developing those skills).

You are kinda taking my statement out of context of why I made it and this thread. I was using it as counterpoint to those who are saying that the dangerousness of the roots would deter people from going there to pk.

Dp is the only real downside to pk'ing in the prime roots. And as I said, it's not a big deal either, since you cap it after 10 deaths. From there on, it would be free game for those interesting in PK'ing, with no further downside. Only the thrill of 'the hunt'.

[josephm]

Dp is the only real downside to pk'ing in the prime roots. And as I said, it's not a big deal either, since you cap it after 10 deaths. From there on, it would be free game for those interesting in PK'ing, with no further downside. Only the thrill of 'the hunt'.

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7217

The guiding principles of PvP on Atys:
All five types of PvP follow these principles:
Increase in xp: no gain in xp from the PvP
Death penalty: no xp penalty, but the player characteristics (Hp) drop.
Ranking: At a later date, a ranking of the best players will be introduced.
PvP titles: depending on the ranking, new titles will become available with the ranking system

This posted by Cerest in the pvp information sticky.

Read #3. If I understand your post correctly Z, this thread is 5 pages long because the initial post was made in total ignorance of actual fact?

[plarfman]

I just finished readin the 4 pages before this and all I can say is that you people need to readthings that are posted. The above post is 100% corrrect pvp is not going to ruin the game. Look at how this game was desighned and you will see that it was ment to b a pvp environment aka outposts to deffend and the like. I personaly dont have a problem with pvp as i find that those who complain are always looking to make the game easier to play and less harmful to themsleves. On the note that pvp in the prime roots is bad..ummmmmmm why shouldnt it b hard those are suppose to b dangerouse places to b not happy fields of pretty flowers where you can frolic.

[trosky]

I admit my fault about the lack of reading... no DP no Item loss, no problem... no need for imunity

[zzeii]

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7217

The guiding principles of PvP on Atys:
All five types of PvP follow these principles:
Increase in xp: no gain in xp from the PvP
Death penalty: no xp penalty, but the player characteristics (Hp) drop.
Ranking: At a later date, a ranking of the best players will be introduced.
PvP titles: depending on the ranking, new titles will become available with the ranking system

This posted by Cerest in the pvp information sticky.

Read #3. If I understand your post correctly Z, this thread is 5 pages long because the initial post was made in total ignorance of actual fact?

*coughs* You still get dp from getting killed from a mob ey? I sure know I'm getting dp on ats when I get killed by a kitin patrol in the prime roots. That dp is the only 'downside' to pk'ing in the pr, making it a rather feeble deterant, since people were saying that trying to pk in the roots would be dangerous.

And since the person getting pk'ed has the downside of having their hour or two a night ruined due to the fact someone felt like hunting homins, the pk'er should have some for of 'downside' as well in direct correlation. Having no penalty for commiting acts that are typically considered below social norms is more than enough motivation for some people to take it upon themselves to commit those acts(in game, I know playing a game is not concidered below social norms (for the most part), ever wonder what the world would be like if there were no permanant death, or social order with punishment for crimes?).

dieing 10 times at lvl 143: 1112000dp,

time to work off 1112000dp: 1-2 hours,

Ruining a number of peoples evenings by pk'ing them while they forage in PR: priceless?

Sounds sad, but some people do get a kick out of killing people, because they are there, and because they can. Irregardless if they are ruining someone elses enjoyment of the game. These same players enjoy being 'hunted' for their actions, to them thats what a game should all be about, a 'rp-style fps' just with swords and magic instead.

And in case you haven't noticed, most if not all people don't mind guild warfare over outposts, or having pvp style events, or have sections of the prime roots designated for open pvp (like around outposts) all the time. The discontents are unhappy about every prime roots region being open to pvp. With no haven or safety, except from your own group or guild, they can't pk you, but I don't think that's most peoples concern here.

[josephm]

ONE person I have talked to on game doesn't want free for all pvp. Everyone who doesn't is on Klient or here. I hardly think 70 people represent what the players want. Myself included. a Majority of people peruse the forum but make their suggestions in game for consideration rather than end up in stupid arguments with stupid people (again, myself included...and though he doesn't play, my dear dear friend Alex working next to me...playing the air drums)

I agree there should be penalties. But there can still be free for all in pvp. If I'm +kami I can kill +kami. I'll suffer Kami fame, the other person won't. I think there should be loot...not based on what the killed person has though. Just trophys for certain quest mobiles. I want a necklace of Tryker ears for instance...and I'm sure Trykers would like a nifty Zorai mask hanging over their fireplace to tell their grand children about..."Fearsome and bald he was, with dark blue skin and a penchant for digging in the buff"...assuming I don't make necklaces our of their ears too!

Unfortunately people arguing against free for all in PR are agruing fully against it. By this I mean that Guild and Faction PvP are NOT free for all and therefore 100% against it.

Oh yeah, when I'm running around getting mats in PR, I'm usually harvesting off DP if I'm going for the real good stuff. Dodge shells for example. So really, PvP isn't that big of a set back. and like I said before, the route nessicary means I have a good 5 minutes on 125 compass scan and up to 10 minutes on 250. You may have pked in PR but obviously you weren't trying to harvest. So unless you have tried to roleplay what goes on, you can't really say anything. This isn't meant to snub you, or anyone. I'm going on there tonight with a friend and we're going to hunt a little but I'm also going to be doing a little realistic hunt scenarios with just the two of us assuming we have time for it.

[zzeii]

Unfortunately people arguing against free for all in PR are agruing fully against it. By this I mean that Guild and Faction PvP are NOT free for all and therefore 100% against it.

The Current Guild based PvP in the PR means area effect spells won't affect your guild or group members (unless you specifically target a guild member with an AE). Beyond that, you can attack everyone. So the only difference between free-for-all in the arena, and guild pvp in pr is you can use AE nukes without killing your group/guildmates (unless of course, you AE your guildmates directly, then they have their own special rules for that). Not much difference in my opinion. (Which there is no fame effects in guild(aka open) pvp in the PR).

ONE person I have talked to on game doesn't want free for all pvp.

And please clarify this. Do you mean he doesn't want pvp free for all:
a)anywhere in game?
b)In the Prime roots?
c)Everywhere in game?

If your answer is b, then the poll on this link might give you a better idea of peoples opinion about guild (aka open) pvp in the prime roots.(Please take into account this pole was based off from the current happenings of PR, where most everyone goes there to harvest, with the rare exception of someone crossing, or even rarer of a hunting group). http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t ... ge=1&pp=10

And on a final note, Fuzz, you may hardly see anyone down there now in Trench of Trials. There are other Prime roots regions that have a more active population, where I do run across people on a more regular basis. And the game is also having a good population of lower level players without access yet, with more and more people coming into the game. Allow me to relate a little story from shadowbane...

Originally, when House Daenyr had set up shop near the elven region, rpk's were very few and far between. Beyond an rpk group with a full accompaniment of summoner bots, who after 1 or 2 smack downs, moved on to greener pasteurs. As time went on, and more people reached higher level, and had time to make RPK alts, the rpk incidents started to increase. It wasn't until the 2nd to 3rd month, that there would be 10-15+ seperate rpk incidents a day(aka 10-15 different groups (whether 1 or more people) come through on a sweep). People in my own guild, who I was good friends with, had made rpk characters and had even RPK'ed their own guild mates.

So while in its current stage, pvp may not be an immediate issue on implementation due to low access to regions. But as the population grows (and people will be joining solely for the joy of pk, along with people making pk alts, so they wont soil their main names) these problems will grow along with it, and those people, who will now be in a small minority, who are protesting it now, will leave the game, and everyone else can enjoy Shadowbane 2.

[josephm]

Sorry Zzeii. No free for all pvp whatsoever. But this is ALSO the only person who has said anything against pvp that I have spoken with, in region or p2p...which is normally region in the knot!

Also that poll is stupid. Plarfman pointed it out even though I voted.
Where is 'modified PvP'?
Event triggered free for all? eh?

no this poll is skewed. just look at it for crying out loud. one positive ffa vote and a bunch of others. Even should people want merely want modifications to the ffa and vote in a different region, they count as a negative vote.

As to your poll on that thread, despite PvP it seems a majority of people are going to stay. A lot of those that don't care probalbly don't spend much time there. As to the ones who are complaining about it...

How often do you see someone say ' I can't stand a lack of content, bugs blah blah blah' and see 5 people chirp up 'good riddance, have fun, goodbye go away'?

I think these people have a valid point and I support them. As for PvP, I'm sorry to see them go honeslty. I wish everyone wanted PvP as much as I did, but oh well. At least here It comes down to a difference of opinion. When you're paying it's just as valid.

Myself, I have alliances and friendships I've forged, and the power of our sole harvest/crafter guild in Zorai gives incentive for people to protect us and give us safe passage for free uber equipment. We are the Seers of Atys version 2 lol. Katel is our guild leader, a genius, and as generous as I am when it comes to helping our friends, guildees, and anyone who might be unfortunate and in need of some help. I don't doubt that smaller clans will love us as surely as we love them.

I will have a combat character no doubt, and I will participate in PvP with my other guild. But I also plan on spending most of my time as a harvester. I look forward to going up against the 200's who want to bug me. I have tricks up my sleeve that have nothing to do with combat abilities and will make them pay.

Nevrax has also proven that it struggles with game balance. I have faith that they can make this fun. For PvE and PvP both.