Patch 1.10.0: PvP

[kervala]

If I remember correctly, it isn't possible to raise both religious fame rates above 0 without exploiting a hand full npcs missions.
Or will there be a new way to raise kami fame, without lowering karavan fame at the same time (or vise versa)?

Near capitals, Karavan or Kami missions givers only increase their fame and doesn't decrease the other

If I remember right, only missions from tribes ambassadors are decreasing faction fame.

[gcaldani]

Correct. Missions from welcomers at teleporters influence only fame with that faction. Missions from tribe ambassadors (in fact any other npc) can influence tribal and civilisation fame as well as both faction fame stats.

Typically missions from a tribe ambassador will raise fame with the tribe and the faction it's alligned with while lowering fame with the other faction and a few other tribes.
They can either lower or raise civilisation fame with the civilisation of the region the tribe is located in (and/or the civilisation making up the tribe) as well as other tribes.
For example missions for the masters of the goo in void will raise Masters of the Goo and karavan fame while lowering Kami and zorai fame as well as fame for the other tribe in void.
The lore website has information on most tribes which can help guess how your fame will react when doing missions associated with that tribe (in this case, it's a karavan alligned tribe that's hostile to the Zorai'i and the other tribe in Void).

This is a table I've done by myself long time ago (given the old raum site was missing a lot of info).

To build this table, I did at least one mission from the welcomer of all 51 tribes. Being Karavan aligned, the Kami welcomer mission information was provided by a kami player, I'm sorry I don't remember who was the people I asked for. Civilization missions were taken from corporals.

This list is, at the actual state of the game, still accurate. It shows the gain/loss relations only and not values.

The table doesn't show the gain fame with the tribe because it's obvious, so you have always to consider the tribe itself in the "gain" field.


THERE IS NO SPOILER TAG ALLOWED, SO IF YOU WANT TO DISCOVER THINGS BY YOURSELF, STOP READING NOW.

--------------------------------

# HOMINS TRIBES

# KARAVAN
----------
1 Antikamis
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Zorai

2 Barkers
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

3 Black Circle
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

4 Chlorogoos
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

5 Darkening Sap
Gain: Karavan, Matis
Lose: Kami, Zorai

6 Firebrands
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

7 Goo Heads
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Zorai

8 Green Seed
Gain: Karavan, Matis, Tryker
Lose: Kami

9 Kitin Gatherers
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

10 Lawless
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Fyros

11 Masters Of The Goo
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Zorai

12 Matisian Border Guards
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, First Deserters

13 Night Turners
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

14 Oasis Diggers
Gain: Karavan, Fyros
Lose: Kami

15 Renegades
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Fyros

16 Root Tappers
Gain: Karavan, Fyros, Tryker
Lose: Kami

17 Sap Slaves
Gain: Karavan, Matis
Lose: Kami, Ancient Dryads

18 Scorchers
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Fyros, Fraiders

19 Silt Sculptors
Gain: Karavan, Tryker
Lose: Kami

20 Slavers
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Tryker

21 Smugglers
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami

22 The Arid Matis
Gain: Karavan, Matis
Lose: Kami, Woven Bridles

23 The Kuild
Gain: Karavan, Matis
Lose: Kami, The Company of Eternal Tree, Recoverers

24 The Slash And Burn
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Matis

# KAMI
------
1 Ancient Dryads
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan, Matis, Sap Slaves

2 Beachcombers
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

3 Cockroaches
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

4 Company of the Eternal Tree
Gain: Kami, Zorai
Lose: Karavan, Kuild

5 Corsairs
Gain: Kami, Tryker
Lose: Karavan

6 Dune Riders
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

7 Ecowarriors
Gain: Kami, Zorai, Tryker
Lose: Karavan

8 First Deserter
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan, Matis, Matisian Border Guards

9 Frahar Hunters
Gain: Kami, Fyros
Lose: Karavan

10 Hamazans Of The Dead Seed
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

11 Icon Worshippers
Gain: Kami, Zorai
Lose: Karavan

12 Keepers
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

13 Lagoon Brothers
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan, Tryker, Cuzans

14 Leviers
Gain: Kami, Fyros
Lose: Karavan

15 Pyromancers
Gain: Kami, Fyros
Lose: Karavan

16 Recoverers
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan, Kuild

17 Sacred Sap
Gain: Kami, Zorai
Lose: Karavan, Matis

18 Sap Gleaners
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

19 Shadow Runners
Gain: Kami, Tryker
Lose: Karavan

20 Siblings of the Weeds
Gain: Kami, Zorai
Lose: Karavan

21 Tutors
Gain: Kami, Zorai
Lose: Karavan

22 Watchers (Restorers)
Gain: Kami, Fyros
Lose: Karavan

23 Water Breakers
Gain: Kami, Fyros
Lose: Karavan

24 Woven Bridles
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan, Matis, The Arid Matis

# PRIMITIVES TRIBES
--------------------
1 Cuzans (Cutes)
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Lagoon Brothers

2 Fraiders (Frahars)
Gain: Karavan
Lose: Kami, Scorchers

3 Gibads (Gibbaïs)
Gain: Kami
Lose: Karavan

# CULT
-------
Kami/Karavan at altars give fame to their cult and there is no loss.

# CITIZENS
----------
** Fyros

* Gain:
Fyros
Frahars Hunters
Leviers
Oasis Diggers
Pyromances
Watchers
Root Tappers
Water Breakers

* Lose:
Lawless
Renegades
Scorchers

** Matis

* Gain:
Matis
Darkening Sap
Green Seed
Sap Slaves
The Arid Matis
Kuild

* Lose:
Ancient Dryads
First Deserters
Sacred Sap
The Slash and Burn
Woven Bridles

** Zorai

* Gain:
Zorai
The Company of Eternal Tree
Ecowarriors
Icon Worshippers
Sacred Sap
Siblings of the Weeds
Tutors

* Lose:
Antikamis
Darkening Sap
Goo Heads
Masters of the Goo

** Tryker

* Gain:
Tryker
Corsairs
Ecowarriors
Green Seed
Root Tappers
Shadow Runners
Silt Sculptors

* Lose:
Lagoon Brothers
Slavers

--------------------------------

[kalindra]

I think it IS possible to get attacked by city guards if your fame goes too low in the negative with their civilisation. Ask Uliaryn about getting killed by guards in Yrkanis because of negative fame with the Matis.

[zagabranth]

I think it IS possible to get attacked by city guards if your fame goes too low in the negative with their civilisation. Ask Uliaryn about getting killed by guards in Yrkanis because of negative fame with the Matis.

If your fame is between -51 and -100 the city guards will attack you.

[sidusar]

Just to dispel a few misconceptions:

Wooh, is it even possible to get ALL civilizations to +25%?
Will be quite a bit of hard work to get this one I guess.
Or could it be that only "neutrals" could have a + or - in every civ.?

It is possible, but only if you're civ-neutral, yes.

And it's not much of a grind tbh. Fame is easier to gain the closer you are to 0. Getting all 4 civs to 25 would be much easier than getting 1 civ to 100. It shall still keep you busy for a few days ofcourse, but it's hardly a marathon grind.

So you'd need to gain or loose 150 fame points total to get all fame to +/- 25

All those points would be in the range between -25 and +25 though, so though 150 points sounds a lot, even all that combined would probably be easier than getting one single fame from 20 to 100.

If I remember correctly, it isn't possible to raise both religious fame rates above 0 without exploiting a hand full npcs missions.
Or will there be a new way to raise kami fame, without lowering karavan fame at the same time (or vise versa)?

For quite some time now it has been possible to increase both your Kami and your Karavan fame by simply doing missions for both directly.

Yes, raising Kami fame lowers your Kara fame a bit, but the raise to Kami fame is about a factor 10 higher than the lowering to the Karavan fame, if you do missions for the Kami directly. And vise-versa.

If you only do missions for tribes or civs than your rise in Kami fame will be equal to your lowering in Karavan fame, yes, but those missions are for getting fame with the tribe or civ, not for getting fame with the Kami and Karavan.

As city guards I think never attack you no matter how negative your fame this is irrelevant to civilisation fame missions (given the close proximity to the guards of the only npcs you can get fame from at negative numbers such an attack would make it effectively impossible to repair negative civilisation fame without dev. action).

Just like tribes, city guards attack you if your fame with the civ drops below -50. This almost ever wouldn't happen unless you were trying deliberately though.

But it's not true that the *only* npcs you could get your fame back up with are inside the city. Every civilization has scouts, patrollers and journeymen all over their continent, that give fame comparable to welcomers.

It's the same method you'd get your fame with a tribe up from below -50, actually. Those wandering NPCs are there for exactly that purpose, it's just that right now nobody uses them because nobody ever has fame below -50.

[katriell]

I'm looking forward to seeing how the GUI handles a case where you have--for example--all four nation tags, a Hominist tag, and an Antitheist tag...

I guess you can only have one nation-related tag and one religion-related tag active at a time, but if available tags are still displayed in the personal status window, showing all of them un-truncated might get a little gnarly...

[gcaldani]

One small question to Sywindt before patch goes live:

Are created channels permanent or they are session-only?

If they are permanent what is the command to destroy a channel?

If I joined a channel, i will auto rejoin at every login or i have to join manually at each session?

[ulukyn]

- Are created channels permanent or they are session-only?
User channels still active while players make connections to them.

- If they are permanent what is the command to destroy a channel?
You can't destroy a channel. Channels don't have administrative rights, only a password to share.

- If I joined a channel, i will auto rejoin at every login or i have to join manually at each session?
You need join manually the channel at each session.

So channels are semi-permanant in server but session-only for players (no auto-join)

[sidusar]

- We have removed the camps observers, and the associated missions as they have outlived their usefulness. The camps themselves remain unchanged.

Patch is here and the NPCs that give missions for faction points are still there. No PvE content has been removed. We can all breathe easily.

Beware the new way to lose fame though; it doesn't just lose you fame with the nation, but also with all the tribes allied with them. And there's no "you will lose fame if you do this" warning before clicking "ok".