New year, new Start !

[norvic]

Strange words for the leader of a guild that spearheaded KA operations against their own people in the lakes whether they were Karavan aligned or not.

There was no seeing your perfect pacific island analogy or allowing any thought of hominity or Tryker solidarity back then.

The penny sure has been a while dropping

[danolt]

Well those are my words not Pero's, there is a difference. I chose the name from the latin, meaning malformed, and since he is Perofect on the outside his issues run a bit deeper. As egocentric as both me and Pero are, I really doubt readers of these boards want a motivational review of choices made by my character some 5 years ago, needless to say the game was presented in a much different fashion then it actually progressed. We were told by developers a host of things that were coming, spires, new planets, 99 levels of PR etc....We were told that the factions were to become the central theme of the storyline, that never happened.

What I am trying to get across is that if they are not to become central to the theme of the game then I would recommend removing them. End the conflict and move towards a more homincentric storyline. It is not my preferred option, I would prefer to see the two ideals battle it out, but the symbols behind the faction conflict , communism vs capitalism, environmental purism against development, collective will vs an individuals have all but disappeared in the years of stagnation. I can see ways to bring that back, but it would not be easy and I am not real sure it would be profitable to the bottom line of the owners.

I originally bought a boxed game that was going to be an anvil of political and cultural conflict, 2 polar opposite religions, 4 nations that hated each other, a race of bugs bent on destroying all of us, an unstable planet being destroyed by the goo, an unknown past and all of us on the brink of extinction, I thought what the hell, this is a fantasy world worth playing a role in, I created a persona and let the chips fall.

I don't regret it, but I do fill more then a bit deceived. I would like to think that the new Ryzom has learned something from the past, that extended player conflict without any hope of resolution is not a good idea. That is why I am urging caution in resurrecting the factional conflict, there needs to be an attainable victory point, a time for resolution, it does not have to be programed from the start, but it should be in the story arc.

If it is going to be years before a world that reflects the K+K Konflict, a digital Atys that can represent changes brought on by the war, can be programed into the game; if we are going to have to suffer more years of eye numbing flamewars on the forums, and nothing actually changes, then I just assume not get on for the ride.

[gcaldani]

Well those are my words not Pero's, there is a difference. I chose the name from the latin, meaning malformed, and since he is Perofect on the outside his issues run a bit deeper. As egocentric as both me and Pero are, I really doubt readers of these boards want a motivational review of choices made by my character some 5 years ago, needless to say the game was presented in a much different fashion then it actually progressed. We were told by developers a host of things that were coming, spires, new planets, 99 levels of PR etc....We were told that the factions were to become the central theme of the storyline, that never happened.

What I am trying to get across is that if they are not to become central to the theme of the game then I would recommend removing them. End the conflict and move towards a more homincentric storyline. It is not my preferred option, I would prefer to see the two ideals battle it out, but the symbols behind the faction conflict , communism vs capitalism, environmental purism against development, collective will vs an individuals have all but disappeared in the years of stagnation. I can see ways to bring that back, but it would not be easy and I am not real sure it would be profitable to the bottom line of the owners.

I originally bought a boxed game that was going to be an anvil of political and cultural conflict, 2 polar opposite religions, 4 nations that hated each other, a race of bugs bent on destroying all of us, an unstable planet being destroyed by the goo, an unknown past and all of us on the brink of extinction, I thought what the hell, this is a fantasy world worth playing a role in, I created a persona and let the chips fall.

I don't regret it, but I do fill more then a bit deceived. I would like to think that the new Ryzom has learned something from the past, that extended player conflict without any hope of resolution is not a good idea. That is why I am urging caution in resurrecting the factional conflict, there needs to be an attainable victory point, a time for resolution, it does not have to be programed from the start, but it should be in the story arc.

If it is going to be years before a world that reflects the K+K Konflict, a digital Atys that can represent changes brought on by the war, can be programed into the game; if we are going to have to suffer more years of eye numbing flamewars on the forums, and nothing actually changes, then I just assume not get on for the ride.

This is one of the most intelligent posts i've read here.

[seawe]

Atys's future is a Homin based society, not one based on the factions. I tend to look at Atys as a 3rd world country that is occupied by two foreign powers, I really do not think the native populous would pick one of the occupiers in lieu of self-determination.
...
The rise of a third faction that represents the middle ground between the two is the resolution of that conflict.

Buut you may be wrong The Kami may be a part of Atys its self, not foreign occupiers. The Karavan do seem pretty foreign. And more factions would not really mean the end of Kami/Karavan conflict. But I agree the game is what it is, as long as it IS that. Right now the main storyline has been completely lost and we don't know what if anything is going on... more factions atm would most certainly not be very good for the game since it would splinter the population more, and would steal dev time from actually implementing benefits from being in the factions to start with.

Yes, there are more choices then either/or in life, but this is not life this is game, a game that is supposed to be based on a story and a story that is suppose to be sci-fi, meaning it should be plausible. Good stories, have tough dilemmas, a faction representing the middle ground of two polar ideals is not a dilemma, it is a solution.

See above ...

[norvic]

Agree with you Pero 100% the game never was quite what was on the box cover, that's why Ep2 caused so much strife.

My comment further up was not ment as a flame the opinions you are expressing are alot closer to my own than your IG actions of the past portrayed, not ment to be a muckrake but suprising that's all.

This thread is entitled new year, new start and let's hope for that, flamewars we don't need.

[acridiel]

We may want to bring Jena with us, but the Karavan could certainly be put aside.

Which is a bit hard to do, because Jena IS in essence "The Karavan".
She´s the goddess who´s words the Karavan delivers.
They are the "preachers", she is the God.
No God without preachers.
If Homins would "take Jena with them", they´d still have to follow her commandments, which then would just be preached by homins instead of Karavan Members.

So, where is the difference?

You can´t just "take a God" with you, without any strings attached.
Just look at the histories of all religious immigrants everywhere in the world.
They "took their god with them", just to be prosecuted and ridiculed and worse, by those people who followed the "main/accepted path" of any religion.
They never truly "escaped" this and they may have over time established a to them more acceptable way of living their religion, but they still had doctrines and commandments to follow. Just those were delivered by someone else, in a slightly different form.

So you´d gained your "freedom", just to give it to another "middleman" between you and your god.

Makes little sense if you ask me.

CU
SaM (Edit: LOL, damn habit ^^, of course its Acridiel )

[danolt]

Well Sam,

I don't feel it has to make sense, I feel it needs to be consistent with the Pero persona. Pero does not see gray, it is all black and white, he chooses a path and refuses to see any branches off of it. It takes an intersection with no straight lines to get him to veer, and even then he may decide to just take to the brush and chop a direct route to his goals.

Here are the Commandments of Jena and what they mean, written from Pero's perspective, I really don't see how following them is the equivalent of servitude or of having a master. As a side note I am quite aware that Pero breaks all of these on a regular basis. Sam, being from Germany I assume you are familiar with Martin Luther and the reformation, he believed that there was no need for there to be a filter between God and the people, he put the bible in common peoples hands and allowed them to interpret it, to be able to think for themselves, he made God something that could be discussed at the family dinner table, instead of some mysterious force only explained by a corrupt priesthood who would pardon any sin for the right amount of gold. Pero wants the words of Jena, the light of her being to be open to all, but mostly he wants it for himself, he wants to understand, he wants grace and in his obsession for it, he is blinded to his own actions.

As far as the Kami being native to Atys, I tend to agree, however I think, like the Kitin they are an unintended consequence. I have done more then a bit of research, looking for source materials that was used to create this world, I have found quite a bit, more then enough to have very strong opinions on what is going on. I would be happy to discuss them on an individual basis with anyone, but I really don't think I should post them here.

But here is a little meaningless teaser http://www.amazon-indians.org/matis/mag ... 04_057.htm

Dan

[acridiel]

Of course I know Luther, being what you call a "protestant" myself.
And of course you´re right. But we still do have priests. Nobody can deny that.

And anyway, we´re talking about a fictional Universe here, defending ideas and proposals that are completely hypothetical is in its very essence a flawed undertaking.
So is trying to convince someone to see another point and maybe reconsider his "solutions".
Everyone does what he/she likes best, and everyone likes best what he/she likes best. There´s no arguing about that.

I think the "sources" that you´ve read are pretty much outdated, especially after they´ve been leaked in the first place. WG would be not very creative to stick to these models now, that each and everyone can just look them up and spoil any surprise for themselves.

I sure do hope they changed some things from way back then.
If not, well... not a very bright idea in my humble opinion.

Anyway, the introduction of a third faction, no matter how it´d be named or came to pass, would simply serve as more cannon fodder for those who like to bash things with a stick until they´re satisfied.

The introduction of a "free" Atys, free from Kami and Karavan, would negate an essential part of the story. Which hasn´t even yet truly developed yet.
So, why argue about things that aren´t even sure to come?

I´ll stay absent from this discussion then.
Just don´t see any real sense in it.
Sorry.

And btw. my "Lylanea persona" and many others too wouldn´t see any sense in it too, I think.
Especially on other servers.

CU
Acridiel (SaM )