Gentle harvesting had gotten a bad rap...and patch 1 nerfed it.

[usinuk]

In my hurry to PL up to around 105 or so in harvesting pre-patch - I want to be able to throw a few bells and whistles in while harvesting the ql100 stuff I need for crafting - ended up finding something interesting out at level 80 once I got gentle quality 4.

I already had all the available gentle stanzas up to that point, but hadn't really noticed much of a difference between that and agg harvesting at q50 - except that I would get less material for more focus.

Well, here is what I've noticed at q100 - and its been noted by other posters but thought statistics would open people's eyes.

With gentle quality 4, gentle speed 2, gentle rate 2, and forest specialization (yeah, i know it stinks but i only have 38 action stanza points prior to that)and extraction stanza 5 (-64), here's what I'm finding with choice q100 nodes on a 45 second timer:

Average blowups/clouds: averages less than 1. On those times that actually have a blowup/cloud, only 1 per extraction.
Damage per blowup: 106-120
Damage per cloud tick: 16-21 per tick
Mats per pull: 3

With agg quality 4, agg speed 3, agg rate 3, and extraction stanza 4 (-32):
Average blowups/clouds: 3.
Damage per blowup: 350-650
Damage per cloud: 30-100 per tick
Mats per pull: 4

What's more subtle, though, is that both the source modes and effects of source modes are different.

I've found that source modes, in general, tend to average lower by a factor of about 1.5; I'm getting a lot more 0s and 1s rather than 4 or 5s versus aggressive.

But what's equally as interesting is the effect of source modes. Everyone tries for a 0 or a 1 using aggro since its the only way to get a source not to die. However, with source mode 2 and 3 using gentle, I can go through the entire 45 seconds without either risk to the source...or even a single explosion most of the time.

I can also do source mode 5 if I want to blow up once and toy with having to use resource preservation at the very end of the harvest.

So...while I'm a relatively junior harvester, thought this might be useful to people once respec comes out. Gentle isn't as bad as a lot of people make it...yes, you get a lot less mats for more focus...but you live a lot longer too.

Its just a matter of putting all 3 gentle stanzas in together. 2 gentle stanzas + 1 aggro don't work.

[kostika]

I use agg speed 1, agg rate 1,desert special, and gentle quality. At reset I'm likely to change these to the gentles. But currently I've found that even with these in my extraction action, I get less blow ups and my source lasts ALOT longer than when using Agg Quality. I'm currently lvl 110 forage. Having your source not explode when foraging QL150 mats is moer than useful, its a life saver. I've had sources blow for 850 dmg on me.

I stand by using Gentle quality. It'll save your life even if it takes a little longer to get alot of mats.

[oloriun]

117 now, no longer bother with mixing gentle or using mat extracts [woohoo..] or terrain extract.. I just use full aggressive. Mostly I dont bother pulling over 100 [99 in higher areas] as I just dont need it right now and what I harvest I use. This way I use 20 focus per action and 0 downtime. If I am going over 100q its again all aggressive with 4-8 mat pulls depending on source modes.

I have absolutely no use for gentle this patch.. shortly to change no doubt

[Eshin]

As a somewhat high level fighter (relatively) aggressive is way to go for me, as I do live longer no matter how much those blow up on me. And fishing source mode 0 or 1 isn't that much of a problem (so I won't be needing gentle there to get them any easier than I already get) and hardly do I need to stop the extraction procedure because I didn't manage to get 0 or 1 and I don't want the source life die on me for obvious reasons. Though, I've had sources blow up on me under mode 4 for 1900 damage at 118 level forage (source mode 0 hits on average 1100 damage), and that's a bit too much for a fighter even Anyways, so far I haven't seen any need for gentle, but that might be due to my high hp or so, I don't know. No need whatsoever, that I do know.

Although I see the point here. Everyone's slandering gentle 24/7 and I bet that most of the people haven't even experimented with it, they just go with the flow and tell people like people have been telling to them. But currently, the true upsides of gentle harvesting aren't implemented yet. That is, the kami tolerance and since you can avoid gases they are a no prob.

But yeah, eagerly waiting for patch 1 to kick in and remedy this. And like I anticipate, aggressive foragers will need an entire support army including every class from healer to tank in order to make it through the day

[usinuk]

Although I see the point here. Everyone's slandering gentle 24/7 and I bet that most of the people haven't even experimented with it, they just go with the flow and tell people like people have been telling to them. But currently, the true upsides of gentle harvesting aren't implemented yet. That is, the kami tolerance and since you can avoid gases they are a no prob.

But yeah, eagerly waiting for patch 1 to kick in and remedy this. And like I anticipate, aggressive foragers will need an entire support army including every class from healer to tank in order to make it through the day

Yeah, one of the reasons I posted this was that I honestly don't think a lot of people have spent the points on gentle stanzas past gentle 1 or so (when they just wondered why they wasted them). Then they go on to say it sucks. I was honestly shocked at the difference in explosions...now I'm glad I took focus stanzas for jewelry and armor...more than happy to boost up 700 focus points and save my life.

Patch 1 will be interesting. Given gentle actually seems to work better than most think, I suspect harvest whines are and will be overdone.

The melee whines haven't even started yet - soloing is going to be nearly impossible for a lot of people. And that's an issue that needs to be discussed since it will not be a whine...but a massive nerf to anyone who doesn't use magic.

But that's another thread after I go screw around on the ATS.

[usinuk]

Ok, tested all gentle on the ATS and came away with my jaw dropping. Granted, I'm 12 levels lower there than on the main server, but still was shocked. (You need to be 90 to get gentle 100 btw, and sadly they still haven't fixed the stupid requirement to buy aggro before gentle).

Using gentle 80, gentle speed 2, and gentle rate 2, discovered the following.

Source modes: equivalent to aggro source modes...typically 1.5 mode levels higher than previous patch. Cannot switch using the old change harvest technique. Can switch using preservation stanzas.

Blowups on q100: 400-600 points. Same as aggro.

Clouds on q100: 18-100 points. Same as aggro.

Focus costs: Lower than aggro, but still higher than they were.

Source modes were also nerfed significantly. 1 would generate blowups, 3 could nerf the source life, 5 you were in trouble.

So...basically all-gentle harvesting is roughly equivalent to the way mild aggro harvesting was...better than all aggro, but still not what it was.

If the point was to get people to roleplay a little more and not tear up the planet, completely misses it. If it is simply to slow down harvest exp, they've done a marvelous job. Be warned.

[lazarus]

I've always been an advocate of gentle actions, and made a recent thread on a similar subject. I will wait for the patch to see it with my own eyes, but I'm beginning to fear the worst from the ATS posts I've seen.

In my other thread, I suggested gentle actions are not gentle enough, and it looks like this is indeed the case.

Oh well, I've been using all gentle as long as I've been harvesting. No point changing now. I just hope there is method to the madness and we see some positives out of this.

Is it just me, or does it seem that MMOG devs always seem to be in a different reality to the players when it comes to 'fixing' things?

[pcheez]

I've always been an advocate of gentle actions, and made a recent thread on a similar subject. I will wait for the patch to see it with my own eyes, but I'm beginning to fear the worst from the ATS posts I've seen.

In my other thread, I suggested gentle actions are not gentle enough, and it looks like this is indeed the case.

Oh well, I've been using all gentle as long as I've been harvesting. No point changing now. I just hope there is method to the madness and we see some positives out of this.

Is it just me, or does it seem that MMOG devs always seem to be in a different reality to the players when it comes to 'fixing' things?

They live in their own little worlds. Trust me, i know.