Some thoughts from a returning player

[lupine04]

Hi all,

Just dropping in to say hi and say that, man it's cool to see this game actually getting another go. That they're adding a subscription is, in my opinion, a good thing.

Some quick background... I first learned of SoR back well before it went into beta. I was taken by the style, the look and feel of the game. It was so "wierd" to me... in a good way.

The game came out and I had my retail boxed copy the first day I could. Opened my account, logged in and started playing.

Without going into too much detail, I've been back a few times in the years since and left for various reasons. Once was because of the over-the-top increase in difficulty of mobs after that first patch, and other times were for other reasons. I left the last time and thought it was the last time, since Ryzom went down for the first time not long after.

I kinda gave up following it at that point as, already having been through the death of two other MMOs I really enjoyed, Asheron's Call 2 and Matrix Online (well, MxO isn't "dead", technically.. but it may as well be; SOE's done almost nothing with it since they picked it up. But I digress...), and I didn't want to go through it again. I chalked Ryzom up as another truly original and great game that deserved to succeed, but didn't.

In the interim, I've jumped around to myriad other MMOs, mainly sticking to FFXI (my mainstay) but trying out others.

I just came back to Ryzom last night (welcomed with server down time lol... typical of my timing :-p )

After running around a bit, exploring the scenery again, doing a bit of fighting and harvesting, and experimenting with the stanza system to re-familiarize myself with it... I have to say...

If you really want to appreciate what Ryzom offers all over again, spend a few months playing some of the derivative, unoriginal, uninspired, shallow and repetitive excuses for "MMOs" that other companies have been churning out over the past couple years. All the "me-too" wanna-be's fighting in their own "clone war" for the bigger piece of that pie called WoW.

I swear, it'll make you appreciate Ryzom - or any MMO that didn't pop out of that "me-too mold" - all the more.

That said, I've read that the new developers plan to make changes so the game will appeal to "as many people as possible" (to paraphrase). This statement worries me a bit... because there's no specifying just how they intend to do this - at least not that I've seen.

In other games, when the developers have made statements like that, saying they want to "make the game more accessible" and "easier for players to get into" or any other variation, it's usually meant that it was simplified to play more like WoW. The freedom of a skill-based system was replaced with pre-determined classes. Crafting systems were simplified to become almost mindless. Instead of players having to seek out NPCs for quests, etc, suddenly there were "!" and "?" over NPCs heads. Everything that made the games unique was sucked right out of them and they became nothing but yet another "me-too" copy of a dozen other MMOs already out there.

In all cases that I'm aware of, the results have never been what the developers had in mind. It didn't bring in many more new players. Those it did bring in saw it was nothing new or different from what they'd seen before, and left. And the real kick in the shin... it drove away loyal players they already had. In short, it back-fired.

So, I *hope* that's not what the new devs have in mind.

A great example, I think, of a MMO that's in the same category as Ryzom (sandbox, class-less, etc) that has done very well, is Eve Online.

CCP started "small", stayed focused, and have steadily developed a loyal following without ever compromising what the game is about. They seem to really value the loyal player base they have and I've heard them state that they have no intention of "painting it pink" (their words) or "dumbing it down" to attract more players. Instead they've worked at streamlining it for those who would play it anyway for what it is. And for sticking to their guns, and not hopping on the "me too" bandwagon, they've got 250k loyal players logging in.

It took them a few years to get where they are... but they've done it. And they've so without selling out or compromising their vision of what they want the game to be.

SE has done the same with FFXI. Just recently, they underscored that dedication by stating they wouldn't add teleports directly to certain locations because they want getting there to "require some effort by the players". That's noteworthy because to many in the MMO scene these days who want everything handed to them, something "requiring player effort" is like offering kryptonite to Superman. SE is well aware of this. However, they know the kind of experience they want FFXI to be and they value the loyal players they have, so they're not straying from their path. Again, there's a niche game whose developers have not and will not dumb the game down or make it easier just to get more players. SE's integrity and focus has been rewarded with ~500k players, year after year, who stick with the game for what it is.

If handled right, I see no reason why Ryzom can't do the same. It's had a really rough start and was, for all intents and purposes "dead" for a time. However, it's also been off people's radars for a while and there are many who haven't even heard of it. So, there's a whole new group of players who could be introduced to Ryzom for the first time... and I think the time is right because I'm seeing more and more people who are looking for something different and new, instead of the same old routine.

So anyway... I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here and some might be wondering where I get off coming here posting such things when I haven't been around the whole time. Well, I speak more as a fan of MMORPGs at large, but particularly those like Ryzom, or Eve or FFXI, or any other that doesn't "hand-hold", has depth and detail and requires the player to exercise their brains as much as their reflexes. In my opinion, this genre is stagnating in its own unoriginality, and needs another game like Ryzom.

So, I guess you could say I hope SW is intending to make the game more appealing to the kind of people who would play a game like Ryzom anyway, by making it more accessible, but without changing what makes it what it is.

Anyways... my umm... several cents :-p

[raven41]

I agree. I was just sitting today thinking about what they could do, I was thinking adding a new area with a new race and just... a whole bunch of new stuff, but sticking to the 'ryzom' way, And how awsome it would be. I'd steal a computer so I could play then ... But that would be a ways down the road anyway.

I never want to see this game WoWed out. I played WoW a couple times, each time I'd end up getting to just about level 30-32 and then I'd start wondering... Like I would in Ryzom. and not to long after getting to places I doubt anyone ever goes to in that game, Like the very bottom of one of the land masses, that you can only get to by swimming just right, over half way down its coast, I end up quitting.

A grand total of 2 weeks the first time and 4 weeks the last time. (two times total) where as with Ryzom I played for a year pretty much solid, half of that I would play 12-20 hours a day (no life at all at the time lol) and then over another year on and off. usually off not by choice.

In the end I left for good for mostly the wrong reasons. Someone that wasn't what I expected got the best of me. and I started letting little things get to me way to much. But it had little to do with the actual game. I could still go out and solo brains, and enjoy it like I just started. And I miss it.

Eventually, I'll get back in there... Besides, Someones got to save Atys from those EVIL yuubs.

[fiach]

Hi all,


If you really want to appreciate what Ryzom offers all over again, spend a few months playing some of the derivative, unoriginal, uninspired, shallow and repetitive excuses for "MMOs" that other companies have been churning out over the past couple years. All the "me-too" wanna-be's fighting in their own "clone war" for the bigger piece of that pie called WoW.

I swear, it'll make you appreciate Ryzom - or any MMO that didn't pop out of that "me-too mold" - all the more.

:-p

Thats very true, I've played 'em all and keep coming back to Ryzom which I consider to be my natural home

[lupine04]

Thats very true, I've played 'em all and keep coming back to Ryzom which I consider to be my natural home

That's kinda how I am with FFXI. No matter what happens, I always will play that game 'til they take it offline for good.

But Ryzom (why isn't it "Saga of Ryzom" anymore, btw?) is definitely in a class all its own.

I was showing a friend around the game, on Silan earlier tonight. I think he was getting a bit of a kick out of my enthusiasm as I explained the skill/stanza system, or the harvesting system.. having to maintain the resources even as you're hacking away at them, etc. I explained some of the basics of crafting but have *really* forgot a lot about how crafting works in this game lol. Have a lot of catching up to do there.

I can't help but be impressed by the level of originality in this game.

Though of course, a sandbox game does require a very different approach and I think that's what turns people away. And that's not a bad thing. It's just like Eve or FFXI... it attracts a certain kind of player. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think these companies trying to "be everything to everyone" have the wrong idea, because time and again they don't seem to get it right.

They're all trying to squeeze into the spotlight with WoW, hoping some of its success will rub off on them. It's ridiculous. There's only one WoW. If people want to play that game, they'll play the real thing. It's like trying to find someone who acts similarly to Christopher Walken... You're not gonna find it. Just get Christopher Walken and have the real deal.

Okay.. odd analogy, I know. But you know what I mean .

In my very personal and unprofessional opinion, if you find a niche - a specific portion of the gaming population - and then make the best game you can catering to that group, you will fare far better than trying to please everybody. Again, CCP has done it successfully with Eve and SE has done it successfully with FFXI. So, it can be done.

But anyway... /rant off again :-p

[katriell]

Ryzom (why isn't it "Saga of Ryzom" anymore, btw?)

Random management twitch that occurred in the late Nevrax era (or was it the Gameforge era?). It was supposed to help marketing. What marketing? But we all know "Saga of Ryzom" was more descriptive of how the game was in its heyday and how it hopefully will be in the future.

Yo, Spiderweb; can we have an unrenaming?

By the way, I love the Christopher Walken analogy.

[kasumi2k]

Was Nevrax kat and was to do with a more "modern" naming approach for a more "cutting edge" MMO market. Was also a slight part to play for the sci-fi aspect of the game

[acridiel]

It's like trying to find someone who acts similarly to Christopher Walken... You're not gonna find it. Just get Christopher Walken and have the real deal.

Well, I think it fits.
Only difference´d be that for lack of an index finger Ryzoms "trademark gesture"´d be the Yubo widdling on your shoes

And yes, Ryzoms uniqueness makes it a niche game, which in my opinion is at once a blessing and a curse. Because of SO many people wanting and sadly knowing only (games like) WoW, there aren´t that many left to like games like Ryzom.

At the moment, the only game that comes near Ryzom in originality and "difficulty" is The Chronicles of Spellborn (HEY, those guys remaind their prefix), but its allready paying the cost.
About one month old and allready no full servers and people shouting down the house with "why isn´t this like WoW, why doesn´t that function like in WoW."
If I had a dollar for each time I see someone asking for "a farming spot" or, "a site with maps", or "where is XY, can´t find it!" in the newbe-area I´d be a rich man already.

But interestingly most or at least some players on their "main lands" seem to try and keep these down, away. And do want its approach to stay as it is.
Had a very, ryom-like conversation about the sense or nonsense of wow-ish games yesterday. But still there are a significant number of "let´s say average" gamers out there...

Funniest "encounter" in their general chat was as follows, just the day before yesterday:
Average Gamer: "WHERE IS NPC (NAME)????"
Me: "His location is in the quest-text, just look at the map. "
A. G. : "I DON`T READ QUESTTEXTS! Just tell me where he is."
Me: "XD But you can read the chat, can´t you? Where´s the difference?"
no answer yet...

And in addition, while assuring all of you that I will stay on Atys and that my love for it is still unbroken, if the hopefully forthcoming encyclopedia missions and eventual?/probable?/maybe? Main-Land-Quests are done in a similar way as over there, we´ll all be happy about it.
These guys really put some thought into their quest system and lots of fun and wit.
The ONLY thing I´d realy whish Ryzom to do better, is the seeming change of your personal world, if a quest/mission changes something in it.

What´s so difficult in for example, telling the client that after Mission X was completed NPC Y isn´t needed anymore on this particular customers PC and can in effect be "switched off" and not turn up anymore?

I do only have a very slight notion of programming, but if I´m thinking in correct it´d be a simple matter of one variable for this NPC. To be or not to be, inGame, that would be his question

Ok, it´d probably be loads of NPCs if done right, but frankly who´d care if a game is 1 Gigabyte bigger nowadays, if it could do such a cool thing?

I read somewhere that WoW is trying for a similar approach with WotLK.
SW, got any Devs to spare? *ducks*

Anyway, Ryzom for me still is an unpolished gem.
It needs lots of hours of artful polishing to really, really shine, but we all hope that someday it will!

CU
Acridiel

[fiach]

TCOS half arsed approach to launching a MMO will be its downfall methinks, I've given up on it because of this.

I was waiting for Spellborn for a long time, eventually I got an email to join beta for which I had applied.

I followed the links for beta that day, I couldnt get it to work, so I posted on the forums who's address was provided in the email.

I asked on the forums, to be told that beta was closed and Im like wtf??? I just got the invitation?

Then I got a snotty PM from a GM on the forum.

1. I was NOT allowed to discuss beta on the forum!
2. I used the WRONG forum.

Well I replied that I used the forum they linked in the email and was trying to get a beta (to which I had been invited) to work, so I needed advice, It wasnt my fault they screwed up.

He apologised and said he hoped to see me in game, to which I replied, not on your life will I ever play that game.

That was my brief tryst with TCoS

[xtarsia]

Im gonna add the counter point to this post in a rather blunt way.

Ryzoms a sack of poo.

Why?

well if i log in i can do the following:

Grind and er...

yeeaap..

Thats it.


Exploration : been there, done that. cant explore when ive seen everything already..

PvP : lol? Get real, Fear Crystal enchant > swap to nuke enchant whislt casting a double nuke > fire off nuke enchant. Oh look they've died. RNG depending. Skill required? No.... not at all.

mass PvP : who has the most ppl wins.. no skill, not nothing. pure numbers only. Nice.

PvE : Does not exist - Oh "NPC bosses"? just kill them tank and spank. If u have enough ppl they'll go down. Boring, the only frustrating thing is when you dont have enough ppl. Great job there.

Crafting : Really, its so complicated yet so pointless. having a full understanding of the system i can say totally honestly, that it adds nothing to the game for me. The only thing i wanted to do that never could was make an amp with 100/100 all. Couldn't thanks to RNG and boosts never working despite doing it HUNDREDS of times.

There is so little content its unreal, and not surprising that the game has failed so hard - and will continue to fail.

It doesn't need to be made more accessible. its needs more stuff to access in the first place. So the fact the devs are already on the wrong path is GOOD NEWS PPL! : /

[dakhound]

Im gonna add the counter point to this post in a rather blunt way.

Ryzoms a sack of poo.

Why?

well if i log in i can do the following:

Grind and er...

yeeaap..

Thats it.


Exploration : been there, done that. cant explore when ive seen everything already..

PvP : lol? Get real, Fear Crystal enchant > swap to nuke enchant whislt casting a double nuke > fire off nuke enchant. Oh look they've died. RNG depending. Skill required? No.... not at all.

mass PvP : who has the most ppl wins.. no skill, not nothing. pure numbers only. Nice.

PvE : Does not exist - Oh "NPC bosses"? just kill them tank and spank. If u have enough ppl they'll go down. Boring, the only frustrating thing is when you dont have enough ppl. Great job there.

Crafting : Really, its so complicated yet so pointless. having a full understanding of the system i can say totally honestly, that it adds nothing to the game for me. The only thing i wanted to do that never could was make an amp with 100/100 all. Couldn't thanks to RNG and boosts never working despite doing it HUNDREDS of times.

There is so little content its unreal, and not surprising that the game has failed so hard - and will continue to fail.

It doesn't need to be made more accessible. its needs more stuff to access in the first place. So the fact the devs are already on the wrong path is GOOD NEWS PPL! : /

still keep coming back to whinge about it tho dont you