questions on fame points and using TPs as a neutral

[mikeinspain]

sidusar and gilgameesh: thx very much for your explanations. I'll be careful not to do too many missions for either the Matis Border Guards or First Deserters so I can retain both as sanctuaries. At my earliest opportunity I intend to speed run into First Deserters camp, then turn and chuckle as the deserters chew up the torbaks that I'm sure will be chasing me .

Off hand I cannot imagine any rewards for tribes that would outweigh the benefit of being able to use them as a sanctuary. (at least, not while most of the mobs can kill me with a look). Are there similar tribal camps that could be used as sanctuaries in the Fleeting Gardens and Upper Bog areas or elsewhere on Atys? Or are some of the unfriendly regardless of who you are or what your fame with them is?

[mikeinspain]

for example, on one of the maps I see high watchers, deadened eyes, sibblings of the weeds, seed addicts, green ravishers, and fleeting lords all down in fleeting gardens

[sidusar]

No correction, I did say they attack you below -50 fame and you get capped at 50 fame. Indeed you can keep your fame at exactly -50.00 and still enter their camp. But just 0.01 fame decrease, just one mission for the Matis, or for the Matisian Border Guards, or one First Deserter killed by a team members, and you're Kill-on-sight again, so it's delicate.

I've been doing missions for both the First Deserters and the Matisian Border Guards lately, and seems it is possible to raise your fame with both. (You gain more fame then you loose.)

You are correct that being able to use their camp as sanctuary is about the only benefit for tribe fame at this time. Every region has at least one tribal camp, many regions have two, and a few regions have three. (Though about half of the time if a region has multiple tribes, the tribes will be hostile to eachother, like the First Deserters and the Matisian Border Guards.)

Fleeting Garden has two tribes: The Siblings of the Weeds and the Sacred Sap. All those other names you mention are bandit groups in Fleeting Garden, bandits always attack anyone on sight and you can't get fame with them. If your map doesn't differentiate between tribes and bandits, get a better map.

[acridiel]

I've been doing missions for both the First Deserters and the Matisian Border Guards lately, and seems it is possible to raise your fame with both. (You gain more fame then you loose.)

Of course it is, but again you must be very carefull to balance here.
For if you´d read the lore behind these two "tribes", you´d see that it is amongst others the duty of the Matisian Boderguards, who are actually a part of the Matisian Military and not a "Tribe", to hunt down the First Deserters. So, gaining much fame with the Borderguards for helping Deserters is just a whee bit unlikely

If you´re Matis you´ve lost anyway, because the Deserters kill Matis on sight anyway. Something to do with a slight disagreement on the royal succession If I remember correctly.

Anyway, good luck balancing fame.

CU
Acridiel

[sidusar]

Lore behind the tribes? Stop fooling with us Acri

Anyways, yeah, I don't think "tribe" is meant to imply anything more than "group of people living together". It's just a gathername for every group of homins that decides to live out in the wilderness instead of in the cities for any reason. They range anywhere from basicly just bandits that you can get fame with (Lawless) to task forces sent off by the governments (Matisian Border Guards).

[mikeinspain]

Frankly, I'm finding the balancing act between tribes one of the fun inner games of Ryzom. Is there a resource that documents tribe rivalries and allegiences, such as Matis Border Guards and First Deserters being enemies as Gilgameesh mentioned? And also non-tribe fame that affects tribes?

On non-tribe fame impacts, when Matis Border Guards finally showed up on my fame log they were at -16, which surprised me as I'm a neutral Matis and I expected it to be positive fame of some sort. I've done 1 mission for Matis Border Guards, and I haven't yet done any missions yet for First Deserters. Obviously something I did dropped my Matis Border Guards fame significantly below zero. Could it be that I joined a Fyros guild? Or that I've done several missions for Kami-leaning Sacred Sap?

[sidusar]

Well since you've dragged the thread back up, some corrections to what I said earlier :
- Going Karavan doesn't cap your First Deserter fame at -50 at all. It does for some other tribes though, like the Sacred Sap.
- To get tribes to help you against non-aggro mobs, you only need your fame with them to be above -33.

Obviously something I did dropped my Matis Border Guards fame significantly below zero.

Nope, all Matis characters start with -16 Borderguards fame. Joining a guild has no effect either ways (though aligning with a civilisation might), and missions will always tell you which tribes you loose/gain fame with.

Is there a resource that documents tribe rivalries and allegiences, such as Matis Border Guards and First Deserters being enemies as Gilgameesh mentioned?

Not that I know of, but I can make you one.

Tribe rivalries.
First Deserters - Matisian Border Guards (Knoll of Dissent)
The Arid Matis - Woven Bridles (Hidden Source)
Ancient Dryads - Sap Slaves (Grove of Confusion)
Cuzans - Lagoon Brothers (Lagoons of Loria)
Fraiders - Scorchers (Scorched Corridor)
Company of the Eternal Tree - The Kuild (Nexus)
Recoverers - The Kuild (Nexus)

As for civilisation - tribe interactions:

Matis allies: Green Seed, Darkening Sap, The Arid Matis, Sap Slaves, The Kuild.
Matis enemies: Sacred Sap, First Deserters, The Slash and Burn, Woven Bridles, Ancient Dryads.
Fyros allies: Leviers, Water Breakers, Frahar Hunters, Oasis Diggers, Pyromancers, Root Tappers, Watchers (aka Restorers).
Fyros enemies: Renegades, Lawless, Scorchers.
Tryker allies: Green Seed, Corsairs, Silt Sculptors, Shadow Runners, Ecowarriors, Root Tappers.
Tyker enemies: Slavers, Lagoon Brothers.
Zoraï allies: Icon Worshippers, Sacred Sap, Siblings of the Weeds, Tutors, Ecowarriors, Company of the Eternal Tree.
Zoraï enemies: Antikamis, Goo Heads, Darkening Sap, Master of the Goo.

So, gaining Green Seed fame will also gain you some Matis fame, and gaining Matis fame some Green Seed fame. Gaining Sacred Sap fame will loose you some Matis fame and vice-versa, etc. etc.

Those 'secondary' fame effects are smaller than the 'primary' fame effect though, ie. doing a mission for the First Deserters will gain you (much) more First Deserter fame than it'll cost you Matisian Border Guard fame. So doing missions for both will raise your fame with both. I suspect this also means that killing a First Deserters member will loose you much more First Deserters fame than it'll gain you Matisian Border Guard fame, so that killing members of both will loose you fame with both, but I haven't tested that (and aren't very inclined to ).

[raisrev1]

Frankly, I'm finding the balancing act between tribes one of the fun inner games of Ryzom. Is there a resource that documents tribe rivalries and allegiences, such as Matis Border Guards and First Deserters being enemies as Gilgameesh mentioned? And also non-tribe fame that affects tribes?

On non-tribe fame impacts, when Matis Border Guards finally showed up on my fame log they were at -16, which surprised me as I'm a neutral Matis and I expected it to be positive fame of some sort. I've done 1 mission for Matis Border Guards, and I haven't yet done any missions yet for First Deserters. Obviously something I did dropped my Matis Border Guards fame significantly below zero. Could it be that I joined a Fyros guild? Or that I've done several missions for Kami-leaning Sacred Sap?

*snip*

Do fame points affect how certain camps or tribes react to you? I am faction neutral, with 23 kara fame, and when I ran through the First Deserters Camp I was attacked. Or do they attack everyone? I had been hoping it could be a safe/protected refuge from aggro mobs, similar to Matis Border Guards.

*snip*

Your kami/kara fame does not affect how tribes react to you, BUT, if you declare kami or kara, then your fame with certain tribes will be capped at -50, and you will loose any fame above that. For example, if you declare karavan, your First Deserter fame will be capped at -50, resulting in the First Deserters attacking you if you enter their camp.

A Few notes on things I have observed.... It has been my observation that Kami/kara fame/alliegence does not affect your Maximum fame with Tribes.

Your race and Civilization allegiance do affect your Maximum fame with Tribes.

Your starting Fame with any Tribe is based on what race you are. These were set to the Old Racial Fame with Tribes Fame collumn in the old Fame system. In the old fame system. Tribes had 3 things that affected KoS with them, and calculated together to determin KoS; your personal fame with the tribe, your guild's fame with the tribe, and your race's fame with the tribe.

At that time, Everyone had 0 personal fame with every tribe starting out. But their Racial fame was set to how players (and some preset by devs) treated that Tribe. Thus with First Disserters, Every Matis was KoS on start because Matisian players did a lot of quests for the Matis Border guards and often attacked the First Disserters. (something like -60something as I recal). Basicly you had personal + Guild + racial fame = total fame. Using the First disserters as example here with new player back then Unguilded... 0+0+ -60 = -60, thus they would KoS you.

When they switched to the current Fame system, they set everyone's alliegences to an "undeclared" state (ie we had to click Go Neutral to become neutral). They also set everyones tribe fame to either their Personal or their Racial fame. They set it to personal if you did any quests for that tribe. Otherwise they were set to the what the Racial fame was at the time. These Racial Fame's are what all new players start out with now for their preset tribe fame.

The reason Matis Border Guards are -16 for Matis stems from the above old system. Alot of Matis players at the time also helped the First Disserters and thus droped the Matis fame with the border guards to -16 racially.

The best way to tell if a group of NPC's are Tribes or Bandits is this... Select one of the NPC's... If the Name and Title section are both the Same they are Bandits. If they are diffrent, then they are a Tribe. Now this will NOT tell you if the tribe will KoS or not, but will definatly tell you whether they are bandits or not. And of Course Bandits KoS 100% of time.

*snip*

I was on a team when I was attacked so thinking First Deserters might have been reacting to one of the other team members I went up to the camp again. There was no reaction from First Deserters but this time a Torbak attacked me right next to the camp. First Deserters did not seem to react to the Torbak either (though maybe I was too far from the camp). Do First Deserters attack aggro mobs? And do they attack you depending on your fame?

All tribes will attack agro if they get within certain distance of the camp. They will also attack certain Kitins as well if they get too close.

[sidusar]

A Few notes on things I have observed.... It has been my observation that Kami/kara fame/alliegence does not affect your Maximum fame with Tribes.

Oh it does. When I went from neutral to Karavan, several Kami tribes that I had positive fame with were capped at -50, thus loosing me all that fame. I remained civilization-neutral through that.

Your race only affects your starting fame. Your civilization allegiance probably does affects your Maximum fame though.

And, under the old system, tribes wouldn't KoS you until your fame was below -66, so new Matis players were actually save from the First Deserters.

[mikeinspain]

I can confirm Sidusar's last comment, as I recently factioned to Karavan and also had my fame with Sacred Sap, which had been -40, drop to -50. Most of my tribe fame was unaffected by my faction change from Neutral. Ecowarriors fame also dropped to -50.
As I now understand it, my fame with these two tribes, Ecowarriers and Sacred Sap, could decrease below -50 if I do something to negatively impact them such as killing one of their members, but there is no way for the fame with either of them to again move in a positive direction past -50 as long as I remain Karavan faction, correct?
BTW, I have found the table on tribe rivalries and alliances that Sidusar provided earlier in this post to be extremely useful. It is the only documentation on this I have seen. Sidusar, have you thought about adding it to the Tips or to the Useful Guides and Information posts?