Ability to officially cancel OPs

[whiterider]

This is kinda half a suggestion, half a discussion point - I could send a ticket but I want others' input and, ahem, if I send any more they'll shortly become eligible to be classed as spam

Anyway, I'm thinking it'd be a good idea for an attacking guild to be able to officially cancel an attack - flags and all. I dunno how this would be implemented, as I've never been on the attacking end of an OP while an HO; so I don't know what bits of interface this could be incorporated into. Possibly just have the attacking guild's GL/HO let their flag timeout, come back as neutral, and cancel the same way they declare.

It'd save a lot of hassle for both kamis and karas, I imagine, when one side realises they don't have enough people or whatever and announce that they're cancelling, which is immediately followed by the other side's faction chat drowning in "Yeah, but what if they come back?" "Do they mean it?" "Can we trust them?" - instead the attack would be cancelled, the NPCs vanish, the rounds stop, and the defenders automatically be awarded all rounds. It'd be neater and less open to sneaky tactics - especially in situations like Ginti today, wherein it's 2am for half the defenders, and if they decide to trust the attackers and leave the OP then most will log and as such can't be called back if the attackers have a change of heart.

First person to say "I don't think either side would do that!" gets a fish to the face; this isn't mainly about alleviating scaredy-puss tactics, it's about easing paranoia.

What do people think?
If we all agree... then maybe I'll actually send a(nother) ticket

[komissar]

Good idea...

We have had many cases of "cutting off the nose to spite the face" before... People being angry, sad, frustrated or whatever declaring 5-6 ops at once and then a few hours later realising that this is not exactly the kind of behaviour suitable for Ryzomean community...

[akovylin]

If attacking guild not coming and haven't contacted csr to cancel op war - its leader and hos should be banned for a week or 2.... It was 4am for me if i would come and see no kara i would realy kill someone!!!

[rosarot]

Nice new strategic feature

[dakhound]

btw you used to be able to cancel wars before they started. Was abused even more. oddly this time by the non PvP players who used it to perma keep their op with no threat.

op war's were declared by an alt/friendly guild constantly on an outpost therefore 1 guild could keep their op in a constant state of war so no hostiles could attack etc. By allowing people to cancel they could guarantee to be there once op comes out of war state to declare again (yes people did this)

also just made it so one side never knew when the real attack was coming.

see this thread

http://forums.ryzom.com/showthread.php? ... el+outpost


careful what you wish for

[setstyle]

I wouldn't mind seeing a cancellation available within, say, 30 minutes of declaration in order to prevent errors in battle times and such. However, as Jackoo said, anything otherwise does nothing to lessen the abuse potential. I'd be just as angry waking up for a false declaration at 4 A.M. whether I have to sit there for 2 hours or not.

[akovylin]

btw you used to be able to cancel wars before they started. Was abused even more. oddly this time by the non PvP players who used it to perma keep their op with no threat.

op war's were declared by an alt/friendly guild constantly on an outpost therefore 1 guild could keep their op in a constant state of war so no hostiles could attack etc. By allowing people to cancel they could guarantee to be there once op comes out of war state to declare again (yes people did this)

also just made it so one side never knew when the real attack was coming.

see this thread

http://forums.ryzom.com/showthread.php? ... el+outpost


careful what you wish for

I'm talking about cancelling by talking to CSR that will be third trusted side. Don't split here your false Jena thoughts.

P.S. The situation with OP war declared at night and not even visited by "attacking" forces should be handled by CSRs as abuse and insult of all defenders that came.

[sunsh]

I agree that there should be some penalty for declaring war then failing to attack. Wars declared should be fought. Failure to appear should not be an option.

[whiterider]

Jack, I read most of that thread. It looks like there were two concerns raised:

Cancelling an attack refunds the dappers spent on declaring. I hadn't thought of this, but I don't believe it should - the reasons why are laid out pretty well in that thread; here, cancelling an attack would not refund anything. As sunsh says, there should be a penalty for failing to attack - I don't intend for that element to be removed.

The other concern is that friendly guilds could constantly declare and then cancel, in order to avoid hostile guilds getting a look in. Hmm. Theoretically, they still can - by just declaring and then no-one turning up. Costs them a fair bit, too. I don't think I've ever seen that happen (I've only been playing since '07, that patch was released in '06). And as for why - I suppose money could be one reason, which I've addressed above.
But risk of having an OP out of commission for a couple of hours if someone takes the opportunity to force it into the attacking friendly guild's hands - I don't think I've ever seen the economy at a point where... what, two or three stacks of cats makes that much difference to a guild or faction, to actually be an effective deterrent.
Of course, that could just mean that we haven't yet hit on the real reason why people don't do this I'd like to think it's because neither side are that fond of what can be described as sly and dishonourable tactics. I'm not sure if that's over-optimistic of me, I don't think it is.

Also, I was thinking that attacks would only be cancellable during the actual rounds. No real reason for this other than that no-one knows how many will be attending on each side until the timers start, and I can't think of another (good) reason to want to cancel.

[komissar]

I'm talking about cancelling by talking to CSR that will be third trusted side. Don't split here your false Jena thoughts.

P.S. The situation with OP war declared at night and not even visited by "attacking" forces should be handled by CSRs as abuse and insult of all defenders that came.

You are referring to this one?
http://www.neva.org/forum/files/war_cancelled_321.jpg
Or it's just general banter... Cause I really don't remember kara players/guilds attacking and not showing up... This was done often by Individuals like the Crescent moon etc. But not kara guilds...
(just so we are clear on this)