Why would I want to come back to Ryzom ?

[crusade]

Oh...btw dont get me wrong but i`m also curious and eager to know what Ryzom holds for us in the near future

And if not near ..then on long term

[arfindel]

Someone did it once, I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of human stupidity to do it twice.

getting positively critical again, aren't we?

Before I was into MMOs I was mostly a bridge player. Learnt a thing (or two) there. You have to play asuming the best cards distribution. Moderate it by statistical probabilities. Against the worst there's simply no way to win.

[riveit]

The flies are writing business plans for the spider. Given the total lack of information on the owners, why assume that they are a business? My bet is on an alien cult.

[fadebait]

You have to play asuming the best cards distribution. Moderate it by statistical probabilities. Against the worst there's simply no way to win.

Hmm, interesting - I'm pretty poor at bridge - I will try doing that

[petersk]

johntf raises some good points, as do Faa and others. Maybe John is right and Ryzom will die a third death. I certainly hope not since I am disgusted with "mainstream" MMO's (i.e. grind quest, grind quest, girnd quest, ad nausium). Tried many other MMO's when Ryzom went down months ago, and none have compared to the complexity of ecosystem, graphics, crafting, modification of spells (none did allow for that besides Ryzom), etc. If you would read the other threads John, you would see that many of us would not mind a server wipe if it was truly needed, we would still play. Would I WANT that to happen? No..
I agree new content is needed, esp if there is no wipe. I heard part of the original plans were to have a second world open up, as well as the overhead roots. Would that be content enough to suit you, at least to start? None of us know the plans of the new owners, and I understand the need to be a bit secretive about new content in games such as this. However, I and others are willing to go on a little faith here since the previous owner (curses the name GF) never did anything except add a gambling wheel to distract the players while the LET Ryzom die. They never intended to have the game succeed, imo. It is my understanding that Nevrax underestimated the true costs involved in developing/releasing the content they had planned. Add to that the release of WoW at about the same time and it spelled disaster for Ryzom. What you said is true, the game did fail, but only once. GF just wanted the codes, which they might have aquired if not for Spiderweb (our mysterious new owners )
For the time being, I and many others are content just to be home. In time, hopefully in the next 2 or 3 months, we will be told of the plans to make Ryzom a success. Until then, I will enjoy my digging, crafting, trekking, hunting and chatting with friends. I am willing to go on a little faith, and wait for the answers we all want to have.

[jared96]

As one who doesn't understand the concept of owning DVD's, (if I saw a movie, why would I want to see the samew thing again), I'd play somehting else before I would start anew w/ Ryzom after a system wipe. I can do new things by strating a new crafting tree, starting a new weapon tree but under no circumstances would ever consider regrinding two dig regions and 6 trees of HA.....BTDT, just doesn't quite get the emotion I feel about a repeat along those fronts.

[final60]

new fresh server idea was tried before

just meant half the people from aris transferred there because of the great "oppression" they suffered from the evil kara's and hardly any new players joined.

next idea please

and no, I would not be happy at "taking one for the good of the game" I play for fun, not to re-grind all the stuff I did over the last 3 years.

A server wipe can not be compared to Cho. What is being proposed has nothing to do with that concept. Cho was a mistake. The situation on Arispotle forced a particular reaction on Cho.

Its taken you 3 years to get the masters you have now, because your in that small band of players that are on these forums. The few players that use the forums as much as playing the game. Which is no where near the amount of people that have subbed to play this game, which is over 200 thousand in the past almost 4 years.

We are talking about the benefits that a wipe will have over non-wipe for the potential new playerbase who will actually play the game.

Like a couple of years ago when we had to go up against the release of World of Warcraft at a crucial point in Ryzoms development. We are about to be at another crucial point when we open subscriptions again just a month before WAR is released.

[johntf]

getting positively critical again, aren't we?

Before I was into MMOs I was mostly a bridge player. Learnt a thing (or two) there. You have to play asuming the best cards distribution. Moderate it by statistical probabilities. Against the worst there's simply no way to win.

Bridge is a game of fixed odds, little bluffing and no magic. The analogy doesn't quite fit here. Here we want have a fresh deck, or mix some new cards in. Then it's a whole new game. And as for humanity I'm always critical I use the internet as my ultimate example of how low as a species we've fallen.

johntf raises some good points, as do Faa and others. Maybe John is right and Ryzom will die a third death. I certainly hope not since I am disgusted with "mainstream" MMO's (i.e. grind quest, grind quest, girnd quest, ad nausium). Tried many other MMO's when Ryzom went down months ago, and none have compared to the complexity of ecosystem, graphics, crafting, modification of spells (none did allow for that besides Ryzom), etc. If you would read the other threads John, you would see that many of us would not mind a server wipe if it was truly needed, we would still play. Would I WANT that to happen? No..
I agree new content is needed, esp if there is no wipe. I heard part of the original plans were to have a second world open up, as well as the overhead roots. Would that be content enough to suit you, at least to start? None of us know the plans of the new owners, and I understand the need to be a bit secretive about new content in games such as this. However, I and others are willing to go on a little faith here since the previous owner (curses the name GF) never did anything except add a gambling wheel to distract the players while the LET Ryzom die. They never intended to have the game succeed, imo. It is my understanding that Nevrax underestimated the true costs involved in developing/releasing the content they had planned. Add to that the release of WoW at about the same time and it spelled disaster for Ryzom. What you said is true, the game did fail, but only once. GF just wanted the codes, which they might have aquired if not for Spiderweb (our mysterious new owners )
For the time being, I and many others are content just to be home. In time, hopefully in the next 2 or 3 months, we will be told of the plans to make Ryzom a success. Until then, I will enjoy my digging, crafting, trekking, hunting and chatting with friends. I am willing to go on a little faith, and wait for the answers we all want to have.

What would suit me is irrelevant, I've been around as long as most and have more than enough skills and dapper to lose. Whats best for me isn't whats best for ryzom I put aside my personal views and wants for whats objectively best in my opinion for the game. Same as you would say you don't want a server reset but you'd be prepared to take one. I know as you say many others would be for it. I just want to see if the staff are prepared to make such tough decisions.

As for a new above ground world, what will that add;

More mats
More mat locations
More tps
More ops
More mobs to kill
More of everything I've seen before on a different map

So technically no, more crafting diversity available I'd like to see personally. Now I know thats contentious ryzom has one of the best crafting tree's out there. But still there's basicly set recipes for great standard gear leading to a uniformity of colour. Only a few really good mats lead to some change. I don't know what I want just a craft system thats as vast as we have but perhaps with something new, something random added too it. I love ryzom for the crafting more than anything but I can't help but feel it needs some new spice.

As one who doesn't understand the concept of owning DVD's, (if I saw a movie, why would I want to see the samew thing again), I'd play somehting else before I would start anew w/ Ryzom after a system wipe. I can do new things by strating a new crafting tree, starting a new weapon tree but under no circumstances would ever consider regrinding two dig regions and 6 trees of HA.....BTDT, just doesn't quite get the emotion I feel about a repeat along those fronts.

Well how about a game where the craft tree specialisations are more spread out evenly amongst players without a small few dominating the whole market, and a game with so many players there is a real, fluid fun sales market for your wares...that way you wouldn't just be grinding as an exercise in mental willpower but for a real profitable fun reason.

I believe it's a lot based on personal experience here, and personal experience... guess what? it's mostly personal *grin*
I logged in every day since the VIP access and each time I barely had time to find my stuff because of chats and had to turn down some invites to hunt as well.

One clarification that needs being done is there are two points of view in extreme opposition:
A. The game never went backrupt, the companies did.
B. The game went banckrupt twice.

Now in my opinion the B assertion is not operable at all. If it's true the game failed twice why bother. But I guess all those who are active here wether they express it or not, base their reasoning on A.

The game as it currently is and is run went bankrupt twice, it has great potential but a stale unchanging game with a dwindling community is failing. I do believe ryzom is one of the best mmorpgs I'l ever play it just needs caring, nurturing and to be run well.

About advertising as lieing. Well, advertising might be generalised as lieing, but if you're on the other side of the wall, the producer not the customer, you'll soon see that advertising as lieing might increase your expenses to banckrupcy In MMOs advertising = list of promissed features. Customers have a range of tolerance against this list. Once this tolerance is over, you lose player base. Lieing becomes expensive. If you look to the other games on the market there are some things people most never lie about because they know too well they are out of the tolerance range. Cannot advertise crafting without a craft system, cannot advertise free pvp if it's consensual etc.

But let's get straight here. You say you're doing criticism not negativism. And ask for new content and development. I say once it's almost ready advertising will answer this question. You answer: advertising is lieing. Then what? Waiting for a company oath of faith to the players, a solemn pledge, a legal refund binding? Cmon.

Sorry I was in a rush when I made the post just saying advertising is lying basicly I meant advertising is putting the best spin on things etc. What I would like to see now decisive action or an affirmative statement to do the kind of things that look bad in advertising. Ie you dont advertise we are wiping the servers and forums because its all a mess and we need to start again. Well not in those words.I'm in a rush again my reply is poor once more

Finally about if this player base, or rather this type of player base can be profitable for Ryzom or not, there are some 2 threads where we debated precisely this during the last month.

[arfindel]

Bridge is a game of fixed odds, little bluffing and no magic.

"no magic" is quite correct referring to business, you try discussing Ryzom as business, isn't it?
"fixed odds" is quiiite what makes no programer able yet to make a computer play bridge decently *grin* - yeah, they are finite (compared to Go for example, but darn many and shifting compared to chess).
"Little bluffing" generally fits a lot of card games from the poker root, sorry to say it fits little to not at all to bridge, but what do I know, played only for some 20 years

The analogy doesn't quite fit here. Here we want have a fresh deck, or mix some new cards in. Then it's a whole new game. And as for humanity I'm always critical I use the internet as my ultimate example of how low as a species we've fallen.

Most of the time in business are never new cards just new players. As for humanity and ... how low etc. not my cup of tea sorry. This is also an proof you don't just discuss things in a clear minded, cold manner. People are not low or high, they generally follow the Gauss curve, we're all as good as we afford to be. This is the intellectual hypothesis from where I start discussing non aesthetical, non theological problems. Now if you try to discuss with me from my deep personal faith then I'll say I believe every single person is a light and a miracle and if he or she seems otherwies it only means you're not close enough.

When we situate ourselves on such disparate position you can imagine discussion is slightly disarrayed simply because we start with completely different dictionaries. I guess coming to Gauss curve and calming down might bring us to a common dictionary.

What would suit me is irrelevant, I've been around as long as most and have more than enough skills and dapper to lose. Whats best for me isn't whats best for ryzom I put aside my personal views and wants for whats objectively best in my opinion for the game. Same as you would say you don't want a server reset but you'd be prepared to take one. I know as you say many others would be for it. I just want to see if the staff are prepared to make such tough decisions.

Personally I'd be amused by a server wipe, but I can understand a lot of people would lose things that they cannot have back, things in which they invested emotionally. I also know that for every single company out there a player base of 100+ is the minimum it takes to start, an asset. SO it's up to the company to compare the two risks. I have no access to statistical data so I don't bother to judge what I cannot grasp.

As for a new above ground world, what will that add;

More mats
More mat locations
More tps
More ops
More mobs to kill
More of everything I've seen before on a different map

So technically no, more crafting diversity available I'd like to see personally. Now I know thats contentious ryzom has one of the best crafting tree's out there. But still there's basicly set recipes for great standard gear leading to a uniformity of colour. Only a few really good mats lead to some change. I don't know what I want just a craft system thats as vast as we have but perhaps with something new, something random added too it. I love ryzom for the crafting more than anything but I can't help but feel it needs some new spice.

Good, we finally go constructive. This should have been maybe introduced in the threads that discuss what we see appropriate as enhancements for the game.

The game as it currently is and is run went bankrupt twice, it has great potential but a stale unchanging game with a dwindling community is failing. I do believe ryzom is one of the best mmorpgs I'l ever play it just needs caring, nurturing and to be run well. Sorry I was in a rush when I made the post just saying advertising is lying basicly I meant advertising is putting the best spin on things etc. What I would like to see now decisive action or an affirmative statement to do the kind of things that look bad in advertising. Ie you dont advertise we are wiping the servers and forums because its all a mess and we need to start again. Well not in those words.I'm in a rush again my reply is poor once more

I agree I want to see such an action too (with or without the wipe) - but not TOO soon. I understand they really care for the actual player base that's why they gave them such a gift as a free game. I would have appreciated that even without being a current player. But this gift also is ment to give the company time to organise and decide. Maybe in a month after the gift I would become restless and interested to have an update, but for no reason in 5 days after I was allowed to log in for free.

[johntf]

"no magic" is quite correct referring to business, you try discussing Ryzom as business, isn't it?
"fixed odds" is quiiite what makes no programer able yet to make a computer play bridge decently *grin* - yeah, they are finite (compared to Go for example, but darn many and shifting compared to chess).
"Little bluffing" generally fits a lot of card games from the poker root, sorry to say it fits little to not at all to bridge, but what do I know, played only for some 20 years

Sorry crossed purposes here caused by me trying to use a card game based analogy to explain what I meant in relation to yours. What I was trying to say was that ryzom isn't a card game. It doesn't have a fixed set of cards dealt to it. It's a fluid almost living thing that can be changed and managed in completely different ways and that there is no having to play your best cards with no chance of winning, almost every business can win to a greater or lesser extent ie be profitable enough to survive. Which isn't a fixed thing it's all down to how its run. The card analogy I used didn't really make this point but basicly what I was saying is yours didn't either.

Most of the time in business are never new cards just new players. As for humanity and ... how low etc. not my cup of tea sorry. This is also an proof you don't just discuss things in a clear minded, cold manner. People are not low or high, they generally follow the Gauss curve, we're all as good as we afford to be. This is the intellectual hypothesis from where I start discussing non aesthetical, non theological problems. Now if you try to discuss with me from my deep personal faith then I'll say I believe every single person is a light and a miracle and if he or she seems otherwies it only means you're not close enough.

Again cards argh, no it's not new cards that effects a business to stray into your analogy again new players would be more points or chips you've won not new cards. Cards would be the game or your business decisions and how you choose to manage them. The humanity comment really doesn't apply to my discussion of ryzom it was just a glib aside as to why I'm always critical and I wasn't discussing statistical distributions of people as your whole gaussian thing implies I was just stating an opinion on my view of the state of humanity. As for your aside about everyone being a light or a miracle I would say that everyone starts off that way and has that potential but it's humanities ignorance/arrogance/a billion other things that are too complex and not for here that causes them to not fufil there promise hence me judging humanity the way I do. But mostly thats unlrelated to the whole discussion here

When we situate ourselves on such disparate position you can imagine discussion is slightly disarrayed simply because we start with completely different dictionaries. I guess coming to Gauss curve and calming down might bring us to a common dictionary.

Well I guess our only disparate positions are that your an optimist and I'm a negative realist. But I'm basing by theory on the fact that the games already died twice through bad management and failing to expand its playerbase and both companies made decent headway into advertising. I remember seeing many banners around for ryzom during Gf's time and while Neverax had massive ratings on the front page of mmorpg.com for ryzom showing us as a great game yet didn't capitalise upon this by running it properly. I just fail to see how you can be optimistic in business in general, or for a game thats died twice already and play the wait and see things will work out card. You simply cannot do that while running a business you must be pro-active and work towards changing a system thats a faliure there are no other options

Personally I'd be amused by a server wipe, but I can understand a lot of people would lose things that they cannot have back, things in which they invested emotionally. I also know that for every single company out there a player base of 100+ is the minimum it takes to start, an asset. SO it's up to the company to compare the two risks. I have no access to statistical data so I don't bother to judge what I cannot grasp.

Well there's a chance that starting afresh with the asset of an existing playerbase might work I don't deny that just my gut instinct and experience and knowlege of this game tell me that it won't work and I've not been wrong yet about ryzom. As for an arbitary number for a company to need as a consumer base seems insane to me I've never heard a single thing like that said about any business ever. I don't have statistical data as such to judge but I do have ryzoms two previous deaths with larger playerbases than we have now, common sense and a relatively sound business acumen to guide me to personally believe that a server wipe would benefit gaining new players faster and more new players. After all thats why most sucessful and big mmorpgs wipe the character level base after an open beta because giving some existing players an unfair advantage (From what most players assume is free play time not a selfless way to test the server) would harm the chance of new players joining. Putting everyone off on an equal footing is exactly the way to start a new game. And although ryzom isn't a new game I think it should start at one as quite frankly it's clearly frelled to anyone with sense at the moment i.e the last two companies died or dropped the game.

Good, we finally go constructive. This should have been maybe introduced in the threads that discuss what we see appropriate as enhancements for the game.

Well sense we don't even know if or how much the new company are listening and this isn't a thread about offering new ideas for implementation isnt the game and I haven't got around to posting in such I fail to see your point but anyway.

I agree I want to see such an action too (with or without the wipe) - but not TOO soon. I understand they really care for the actual player base that's why they gave them such a gift as a free game. I would have appreciated that even without being a current player. But this gift also is ment to give the company time to organise and decide. Maybe in a month after the gift I would become restless and interested to have an update, but for no reason in 5 days after I was allowed to log in for free.

Did anyone hear me say WIPE RIGHT NOW, it is of course too soon to wipe now depending on when they intend to go live or not though and I never said too. I simply said the current company running should consider this or speak out if they intend to or not. Caring about a player base too much is a very bad thing in business, in nearly every business you should pretend to value the customer but deep down all you want is to make easy money of them, thats the nature of business. But again you seem to be under the misconception that I want a wipe now, I don't I want a discussion on it's pros and cons or even in this thread hence it's title a reason to come back to ryzom. I've already seen and nearly done everything in the game, got disolusioned by it's lack of pro active management, dwindling player base, and slipping community attitude so I'm looking for a hook or a reason as to why I should start over again and pay my money when the time comes. For me a mmorpg is an investment and if it isn't fun to play or will be here for the long term I fail to see why I should pay my money when the time comes.

So basicly what I want is a response of whats new and whats going on etc...