I think basically were probably not seeing a bug...the key to this game may just be balance...If you pick one aspect of the game and powerlevel it youll begin to see how when you dont balance your character things can get ugly.
If the fighters who have powerlevelled there characters spent more time harvesting and crafting and the crafters spent more time fighting and harvesting etc...you would find that the crafters who are running into the problem of not being able to harvest higher level mats because high level mobs are guarding the mats and the fighter who can't get higher level items from crafters because the crafter cant get to the higher level mats to produce them would all equal themselves out.(sorry for the long runon sentence)
Instead of grinding out level after level try this...next time you put together a group to go out to kill high level mobs...invite a crafter and harvester along...they may not beable to fight as well but if they get a swing or two in they will get xp in fighting...vice versa when you kill the upper level mobs...let the crafters and harverster do their things...they will beable to harvest and create higher level items and resources using the spoils of the battle. I think this is how the game was meant to be played...if all the classes work together and people stop grinding out levels in only one field the game imbalances and so called bugs would not exist.
Most of us have played other morpgs and most morpgs before Ryzom involved grinding out level after level in the same field, I think Ryzom may not have been designed for this kind of play. I believe the goal of Ryzom is to create complex societies where players rely on one another to balance things out. Sure there needs to be specialists in all the fields but to think your going to beable to specialize in one field without having to rely on another for balance is crazy. The people experiencing the decay problem may have just ran into that wall. If you note the last patch actually made the problem worse, what doest that tell me ? It tells me the makers of Ryzom may just as well have planned the game to work this way. Note the lack of response from the developers on this subject.
Ultimately no matter wether this is a bug or meant to be in the game...it will all pan itself out in the wash...either the makers of Ryzom will patch it, or all the different jobs will eventually have enough higher level characters so that people moving up the ranks will have places to go to get better equipment.
The game is currently in its infancy...give it enough time and most of the issues with levelling will work themselves out, even without a patch.
Speedy advancement...
Re: Speedy advancement...
I'm still not buying the "nerf blind" argument, folks. 60+ and I'm still quick soloing fight @ 3k per pull with no risk of death, and it gets easier as I advance.
I was in a group of 5 55-60s last night chaining 2-3 mobs per minute @ 3K each with no blind or stun (fear only for adds). No risk. high yield. Everyone made 5-7 levels in various trees in 1.5 hours of hunting.
Maybe it suddenly changes and gets way harder 100+.
But, I don't know guys -- I think a lot of people hunt things that are WAY too hard for them to get that 3K. The con value is a HUGE range -- eg blue is what, 61 to 101? You have to know where an actual mob is in that range -- find something at your level or highest level in the group +1 that's easy to kill, and it's 3k every time.
Blind only seems to help if you are taking on things that are WAY too hard for your group, which will take you a lot longer to kill anyway to get that 3K.
Perhaps I'm totally ignorant, but am only speaking from my limited experience thus far. Please enlighten me if so.
I was in a group of 5 55-60s last night chaining 2-3 mobs per minute @ 3K each with no blind or stun (fear only for adds). No risk. high yield. Everyone made 5-7 levels in various trees in 1.5 hours of hunting.
Maybe it suddenly changes and gets way harder 100+.
But, I don't know guys -- I think a lot of people hunt things that are WAY too hard for them to get that 3K. The con value is a HUGE range -- eg blue is what, 61 to 101? You have to know where an actual mob is in that range -- find something at your level or highest level in the group +1 that's easy to kill, and it's 3k every time.
Blind only seems to help if you are taking on things that are WAY too hard for your group, which will take you a lot longer to kill anyway to get that 3K.
Perhaps I'm totally ignorant, but am only speaking from my limited experience thus far. Please enlighten me if so.
Re: Speedy advancement...
It depends on what you mean by harder. Fighting something solo at level 100 requires alot of blinds from your weapon to achieve that 3k. You can probably safely fight something with 2k but there is a considerably amount of time to rest up between fights.btamilio wrote:I'm still not buying the "nerf blind" argument, folks. 60+ and I'm still quick soloing fight @ 3k per pull with no risk of death, and it gets easier as I advance.
I was in a group of 5 55-60s last night chaining 2-3 mobs per minute @ 3K each with no blind or stun (fear only for adds). No risk. high yield. Everyone made 5-7 levels in various trees in 1.5 hours of hunting.
Maybe it suddenly changes and gets way harder 100+.
But, I don't know guys -- I think a lot of people hunt things that are WAY too hard for them to get that 3K. The con value is a HUGE range -- eg blue is what, 61 to 101? You have to know where an actual mob is in that range -- find something at your level or highest level in the group +1 that's easy to kill, and it's 3k every time.
Blind only seems to help if you are taking on things that are WAY too hard for your group, which will take you a lot longer to kill anyway to get that 3K.
Perhaps I'm totally ignorant, but am only speaking from my limited experience thus far. Please enlighten me if so.
In a group without blind you would need alot of healing. Monsters at level 100+ hit really hard even with the right armor. They use special abilities just like another melee fighter. But the problem isn't really that. Your skills branch out after certain levels, for fighters that means for example that 2h slash, pierce, smash are separate lines. That means if you switch to a different weapon to adjust to the protection of the mob you will be leveling a different skill. The same holds true for mages who heal and cast offensive or defensive afflictions.
On top of that, level 50 simply requires less xp to level in than level 100, the same 1.5 hours for 5-7 levels suddenly becomes 1.5 hours for 1 level. It takes about 15-20 mobs worth 3k each to get a level around 50+, It takes about 40-50 mobs worth 3k each for level 100+. I don't remember the exact numbers but thats what it seemed like
Korin - Tryker - Retired
125 2h pierce melee, 105 2h slash melee, 91 lake forage, 55 forest forage, 55 desert forage, 61 prime roots forage, 91 heavy armor craft, 55 light armor craft, 58 medium armor craft, 62 2h melee craft, 52 1h melee craft.
125 2h pierce melee, 105 2h slash melee, 91 lake forage, 55 forest forage, 55 desert forage, 61 prime roots forage, 91 heavy armor craft, 55 light armor craft, 58 medium armor craft, 62 2h melee craft, 52 1h melee craft.
Re: Speedy advancement...
Your armor does NOT decay with each spell cast. I've been wearing the same level 50 armor nearly since I got the the mainland at skill 25 in off, 21 in def magic, and It's only decayed about 20 points, I'm now at 36 off, 33 def. And yes, about the only time I can ever even notice decay, is when fighting in those big groups against 3K mobs. However, even then it's a very small ammount. Soloing, against things that give 1-2 K, I very very rarely have seen decay.
If armor decayed with each cast, I'd be naked several times over, and while the boys I group with may like that, my dress is still holding up quite well.
If armor decayed with each cast, I'd be naked several times over, and while the boys I group with may like that, my dress is still holding up quite well.
Re: Speedy advancement...
mikwana wrote:And yes, about the only time I can ever even notice decay, is when fighting in those big groups against 3K mobs. However, even then it's a very small ammount. Soloing, against things that give 1-2 K, I very very rarely have seen decay.
Yeah, seriously... I really think a lot of people are trying to "overplay" this game, seeing how hard of a mob they or their group can take, despite the experience cap. It appears to me the game is penalizing you for doing so, as if the extended amount of time required to kill something too hard were not enough, your equipment is degrading faster, and mage classes are getting pigeonholed into boring, sap draining CC spells so the fighters can actually have a chance at taking these things down.
Though the strategy of fighting things "way beyond your means" in other MMOs can have big rewards, there's no bonus experience reward in SoR for the extra time and equipment degrade you take for taking on critters way beyond your level -- so I just don't understand hunting this way.
Re: Speedy advancement...
Ok, I think I see the problem now... Those of you saying its not decaying, all of you are under level 70ish... The problem is its much much different at higher levels. The armor does decay faster as you level up because the hp of the armor does not keep up with the decay rate per mob. Currently my heavy armor takes about 2 days to decay fighting mobs that give me 3k. For the mages thats been closed to 1.5 days a suit.
You say this is not due to mob hitting you, and I say its is. The difference between lower level mobs and higher level mobs is the damage they do. The higher level you get the more dmg they do and that reflects on your decay rate.
If you don't believe me just run to any roots portal wearing whatever armor you got and see how fast your armor goes before you die.. You may have to build up alot of dp if you're low level to see this.
Are we fighting mobs way beyond our levels? No, the level range is the same as what you would fight to get 3k, but if they are hitting you for 200-300 dmg a pop and your armor absorbs about 100 dmg... don't you think your armor would decay faster than at level 50 where they are doing 80-100 dmg and your armor is absorbing 60?
You say this is not due to mob hitting you, and I say its is. The difference between lower level mobs and higher level mobs is the damage they do. The higher level you get the more dmg they do and that reflects on your decay rate.
If you don't believe me just run to any roots portal wearing whatever armor you got and see how fast your armor goes before you die.. You may have to build up alot of dp if you're low level to see this.
Are we fighting mobs way beyond our levels? No, the level range is the same as what you would fight to get 3k, but if they are hitting you for 200-300 dmg a pop and your armor absorbs about 100 dmg... don't you think your armor would decay faster than at level 50 where they are doing 80-100 dmg and your armor is absorbing 60?
Korin - Tryker - Retired
125 2h pierce melee, 105 2h slash melee, 91 lake forage, 55 forest forage, 55 desert forage, 61 prime roots forage, 91 heavy armor craft, 55 light armor craft, 58 medium armor craft, 62 2h melee craft, 52 1h melee craft.
125 2h pierce melee, 105 2h slash melee, 91 lake forage, 55 forest forage, 55 desert forage, 61 prime roots forage, 91 heavy armor craft, 55 light armor craft, 58 medium armor craft, 62 2h melee craft, 52 1h melee craft.
Re: Speedy advancement...
I agree - what also needs to be added is that NPCs sell items up to q50, so what incentive is there for a fighter to buy from a crafter [who will want more cash and may have to be located]? Better stats? Who cares if it will take longer and cut down on xp/min...aether4u wrote:
Issue 2: People only buy Q50 and higher items!? So, I thought about this... and just like this poster said earlier, fighters drive the industry. So how is everyone already WAY the hell up there in level while I'm still at 30 crafting and 35 harvesting? Easy. Killing mobs and gaining melee xp is WAYWAY easier and faster than getting money or harvesting, and then crafting items. It's like the rabbit and the hare. The fighters rocket up to lvl50 in no time while us crafter/harvesters have nobody to sell our wares to (which gives US experience) until we make our way to lvl50. That's a huge gap to do nothing but harvest and craft to sell to NPCs -- booooooring.
Re: Speedy advancement...
After level 50, I've noticed that decay seems to pick up. I loose about 1 point every 2 mobs that dont' give 3k exp. I get 1500 or so each mob I kill. I'm level 53 fighting level 56 mobs. AT this level decay isn't horrible or anyting, but if it conintues, then at level 70 or 100 its gonna be pretty bad.korin77 wrote:Ok, I think I see the problem now... Those of you saying its not decaying, all of you are under level 70ish... The problem is its much much different at higher levels. The armor does decay faster as you level up because the hp of the armor does not keep up with the decay rate per mob. Currently my heavy armor takes about 2 days to decay fighting mobs that give me 3k. For the mages thats been closed to 1.5 days a suit.
You say this is not due to mob hitting you, and I say its is. The difference between lower level mobs and higher level mobs is the damage they do. The higher level you get the more dmg they do and that reflects on your decay rate.
If you don't believe me just run to any roots portal wearing whatever armor you got and see how fast your armor goes before you die.. You may have to build up alot of dp if you're low level to see this.
Are we fighting mobs way beyond our levels? No, the level range is the same as what you would fight to get 3k, but if they are hitting you for 200-300 dmg a pop and your armor absorbs about 100 dmg... don't you think your armor would decay faster than at level 50 where they are doing 80-100 dmg and your armor is absorbing 60?
Decay seems to be related to the amount of damage in raw numbers you are dealing out or getting hit by etc. At higher levels yoiu are dealing with much bigger numbers, but the items don't have any more durability than they had at level 20.
Decay seems set to create a high demand for crafter goods. There needs to be a high demand because crafters need to make a zillion items to make one level of crafting. I just think right now it doesn't work exactly as intended.
Re: Speedy advancement...
NPCs do sell items up to level 50 - at least in Fyros capital, go look in the high market, not cheapside. I suspect the other lands have similar features.uncus wrote:I agree - what also needs to be added is that NPCs sell items up to q50, so what incentive is there for a fighter to buy from a crafter [who will want more cash and may have to be located]? Better stats? Who cares if it will take longer and cut down on xp/min...
Re: Speedy advancement...
weavols wrote:Another potential problem is the narrow set of desirable mats.. when was the last time you bought a non max dmg weapon? or armor that wasn't max dodge? If the game population ever grows to where it should be there's gona be some serious fighting/camping for the 8 or so desireable spots for each quality tier. The world is fuuuullll of resources, just 99% of em are worthless.
This may be heresy, I don't want a max damage sword and max dodge armor because I don't like the tradeoffs from other stats. Using all harvested stuff, BigShell is not very durable. ViscSap, MotegaWood and GulatchOil are not very durable. See the connection with degrading?aether4u wrote:I agree with both! It's hard to even pull 2 mats at once at 35 forage. I'm worried too about a fully-populated game where the one or two 'choice' spots for the max-damage mat are leeched 100% of the time... it just seems completely non-scalable. The idea of different stats for different mats was a good idea, but nobody is gonna want anything but damage for a 2hnd sword.
I believe the wide variety of materials is available so people who think about what they are doing can truely optimize their gear for their style of play. For example on my blade, I'd use some Kizoar Stinger to add some durability. I'd use other mats to enhance Speed and Opponent Dodge bonuses. There are web resources under development that can help you decide - look at http://www.lafekafe.com/ryzom/index.php for example.
Good mats are not all dug from the ground. If the fighting community were to bring their parts back to the crafters, the crafters would not need to depend so much on the Harvesters. Hopefully, the Patch One player merchanting plan works well enough to make this viable.