Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

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zengrath
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by zengrath »

Hi, I may be new to Ryzom but I am not new to MMORPG's. I completely understand that Ryzom is unlike any other MMORPG out there.. no other game like it comes close, and there isn't many like it.

This post may be a bit lengthy but please hear me out.

Having played a lot of MMORPG's as well as just about every Genre there is.. And as well as having friends and family who are also addicted to games but are no where near the level I am at in excelling at them. I would like to suggest some idea's that may help out newbies and those not extremely familiar with online games, or RPG's for that matter.

I really want to see this game excel, with all my might. This is one of those unique jewels in games that, desperately need to be heard. But before that can happen, things need to be changed to keep it newbie friendly while not affecting the core game play that makes it so great.

For 1, this game has no advertisements, I have searched for unique MMORPG's for years and haven't heard of this game only until recently, Which was completely shocking. The problem is, you need money to advertise, and things need to be fixed before any major investment in advertisement can go about..

so here are the things I had difficulties with, and that i think should be addressed as soon as possible to start making it easier for new players to become addicted to Ryzom :P .

First... There needs to be more polishing up on the beginner quests. Newbie island quests should be easy to understand, while teaching you everything you need to move onto the mainland. The problem is, some quests are unnecessarily challenging.

There are 2 quests that need to be fixed before it drives too many more players off.. First is the warrior scouting quest to select 4 different creatures. The major problem with that quest is there is no updates once a creature is selected. The problem isn't just the fact that some people may not remember what creatures they selected and which ones they need to get... But also that when nothing updates, that person usually things they are doing something wrong, causing the quest not to update. Thus they get confused and frustrated without taking the time to think and consider that the quest doesn't update properly and maybe to just try and click all 4 and see what happens. For someone who has played a long time in Ryzom, this may seem ridiculous, but watching family and friends struggle through games, This would drive them absolutely nutz, and there is no need for that, Especially in a newbie quest.

Also the crafting quest for creating 3 quality 15 amplifiers. I don't even recall it asking me to create 3 amplifiers. And again that is another quest that doesn't update. Even for someone like me who flys through just about any single player RPG in days, and who has been playing games all my life, thought i was doing something wrong. And even though I experienced another quest that didn't update, I was still worried the whole time while creating the amplifiers that I may not be creating them properly, perhaps missing some important text in the quest that i didn't see. Now that i have done that quest, and have had more experience in the game, to me now, it seems ridiculously easy, But for someone who doesn't have much experience, only gets very put off by the lack of quest updates, or clarity.

There is also some bad english translations in a few quests that would defeinetly put off some people that i know. For example locating the camp of bandits near the lake. One of the quests i recall asks to look for bandits, "in the lake", The problem is... I was in the center of the lake in a previous foraging quest, And was ultimately very confusing before even heading to the lake, due to knowing there is no bandits "in" the lake. So i therefore asked in /r before heading over there only to find out.. It's not even close to being "in" the lake, it's north of the lake.. and you actually have to be on land, north of the lake to see them. At least with the default graphic setting distances and such.


There can be many other things but i have one last big suggestion.. There are many players who come to play Ryzom for it's unique classless and crafting system, being able to choose to craft or forage or melee or anything you like without restrictions on how many levels your allowed to have in each category. Also a lot of people who come, also like the idea of having a very in-depth crafting system and are tired of the extremely simple WoW type crafting systems that are obsolete because of dropped mob items that far surpass the weapons you can create.. So many people come looking for that change..

Now to get to the point on the previous paragraph.. is the foraging system. It's fine, and i like it.. past level 50... The problem is.. It's not only extremely drawn out for those familiar with the foraging system, but it's also very confusing and hard to learn for someone who is totally clueless on how it works. I caught on pretty quickly to how to locate spots using the different tools, But even then i can understand there being a lot of people, who are very mature players who simply would have a very hard and frustrating time to trying to grasp a reason to bother going up to 50 in foraging. If it wasn't for everyone telling me how much easier it gets at 50 due to having more options. I would probably have given up on it myself, And yet i know without a doubt i had an easier time catching onto the aspects of foraging then most people will at first..

So i seriously suggest fixing the first 50 levels of foraging. Don't touch the rest of foraging, that's fine, leave it as it is. But make the foraging quests more informative.. give more exp, or more of a boost in getting past that frustrating first 50 levels. I in all the games I've played my whole life, have never ever been so bored and never seen a grind so bad when it comes to getting to 50 in foraging, I had to literally be talking to people in the game to keep my mind off of it, so i could forage without falling asleep. Don't get me wrong. I will love foraging and already to love foraging now that i have more tools available and more uses for it, But seriously the first 50 levels there isn't a whole lot that makes it worth it, And certainly would confuse many people in trying to find reasons to keep at it.

I garrente the majority of people who give up on Ryzom early, is foraging. Crafting can be a little harsh too, but no where near foraging and foraging can be very important for crafting, so if the first 50 levels of foraging is that difficult, most people will tend to give up on crafting as well, and there for be disappointed in half the game already. Endless they somehow find fighting so interesting as to push them far enough into the game, and talking to enough people in the game, to realize how fun crafting can be later on.


I don't know for sure specifically that can fix the 50 level foraging grind.. But i suggest possibly making ether more content for the first 50 levels.. meaning more things that can be done with the lower level foraging, other then making items that are almost worst then the npc's items, (most people take a while to grasp the important of fine and higher levels of mats, including me). So i think one idea is to up the stats on user created items early in the game to encourage and excite people to keep at foraging and crafting... Or.. Make it easier to get to 50, so that people can experience the added specializations of foraging skills.

Making it easier to get to 50 by lessing exp, or something similar might not be a great idea if overdone, because then once 50 is reached it may actually become so slow in the leveling process that people will see it as .. thinking that every 50 levels this degree of slowing down will continue.. So i suggest maybe a little bit of tweaking on the exp needed to level up first 50 levels, but more emphasis on the quality of items that can be made with basic mats.. or making it easier to access mats on newbie island or something.


Whatever it is, something needs to be drastically done with the foraging at the first 50 levels because even as an extremely patient person that i am.. I almost gave up on it myself if it wasn't for other players explaining the options that would open up at 50+.


I have noticed that the players in this game, more then any other, actually want more mature players into the community. This world is huge and vast, and there simply isn't enough players to fill the void. But they also appreciate the work and dedication to playing this game, and in that it keeps mature players around and tends to leave those more immature players from ruining for the others. But while I'm saying that these changes need to be made to make things easier for new players, I am not saying to change the core aspects that keep the mature players here and the bad ones out. All I am saying is that there is no need to torture even mature players who are very potential customers with little imperfections like bad english translations in text or non-updated quests and very frustrating beginning foraging learning curve. These things can be fixed while still keeping the core aspects that everyone who plays love about this game.

So to sum things up, If we want more mature players, and we won't more money, There for more money to spend on development and advertisments, which would therefore create even more players and more development... We need to fix the most important things that would otherwise cause very potential customers from playing in the first place.


I hope that my post has made an impact on one of the developers, or at least some players with some patience of reading this, to push developers into waking up and realizing the importance of this.. I will continue to contribute anything i can to keep Ryzom alive.. and kicking. And i hope to be a great aspect to the community. I truly support any games like this that try to dare be different then the rest. Because it is not easy being different, It's very hard to convince old players and new alike to learn a system that is different then what they are used to, To break them of their comfort level and to ask them to relearn what they have learned in other games.. And that is why it's very important to have the beginning area's and quests and grinding to be as smooth as possible while teaching as much as possible to easy the learning curve of a completely different game then what they are used to experiencing.



P.S. I hope this post is realized and that more players read this and decide to post their difficulties and frustrations while learning this game, So that things can be addressed to ease more players into our world. As this to me, is one of the most important things that need to be done. Yes long time players want more content, want more things happening for them, But without new players, new revenue, advertisements, and so on, There can be no new content for those players who want it.
blaah
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by blaah »

foraging yeah.... can be difficult, especially if you starting to belive the rumor that "tracking is bugged" ;-) ...

anyway, (tracking works btw ;-) , you familiar with pr mat spots ? (for example) anete fiber choice/excel/supreme in one spot. they should make same thing in other regions too not just PR/nexus. it would make things easyer to track and it would not require 3 sec prospect spamming to find the mats in tracked area ;-)
(they can even use current excel spots for this)

higher than choice should also have weather/season requirements to make things more .... interesting. (for example) race anete fiber basic/fine (no weather/season), choice (weather) and excellent (weather/season) in one spot.

.. and on silan, it would make easyer to find that zun amber... maybe.
iwojimmy
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by iwojimmy »

To make Foraging/crafting more newbie friendly, I would suggest making excelent q mats "easily" available on Silan.. so players can craft items superior or equivalent to the quest rewards.
Having Quests rewarding uber lewt (for the level) creates a false impression..and acts to discourage player crafters. Empowering players, and giving them the thrill of providing uber gear to all and sundry, would go a long way towards binding them to Ryzom.
The extra XP from digging xl would speed up the lower level grind, while the low quantities attainable at those levels would prevent xl gear from flooding the market.

I dont even know if the prospect for excelent quality is available at Silan levels, which is a problem, or how the SP economics work out.. but a lot of stuff is done on Silan which doesnt balance on the rest of Atys.
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tr808
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by tr808 »

What u say about advertisment is so true, i myself have pointed this out aswell as on the forum as in game tickets, what amases me the most is that on a site as MMORPG.com its very hard to find Ryzom, when i started there was actaully an campaign running there and many people i still play with today came to Ryzom because of this campaign.... but since GF took over the game news isnt updated, advertisment for Ryzom just doest seem important for them.... while i see a browsergame of them being well advertised on the site.... GF is clearly overlooking a very valueble source of new players wich would cost a fraction of what they could make by just simply running a campaig for a month.

Nice post and welcome to Ryzom :)
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gillest
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by gillest »

zengrath wrote: This post may be a bit lengthy but please hear me out.
A big +1 to your entire post.

Two additions to complement it and maybe makes forage easier:

1- Use the open sources and delay the freaking prospecting quest to later when they have range 2 or something... (even with lvl 250 forest i nearly went mad myself trying to find the 3 spot along the edge of the world....)
Use the open spots: it is how we leveled long ago on the mainlands...
And maybe make alternance between crafting and harvesting:
- Could create 4 open spots for ambers and 4 for seeds, teach the basic of extracting linked with making jewels through craft quest, add HP and so on.
- after range 2 is available make them quest prospect or something....

2- XP wise, the worst aberration of the game (I know, it is working as intended, I get this one many times on the tickets of this problem...):
All digger know that u get harmful at lvl 105 (Q120), 115 (Q130).. and gentle at 110 (Q120), 120 (Q130) and so on...
Except at low level with this gap (top of my head is between 20 and 40) where u need 5 more lvl than the rest of the trend to get the gentle: like u get gentle Q30 at lvl 25..... and not at lvl 20.
Working as intended to make it harder for ppl surely as the xp are lower for 5 hellish lvls.... (that is on a period where harvesting is hard, why make it even harder-slower)
And create confusion: when u explain to new players: at lvl x0 u get gentle +10 and aggro +15 at lvl X5... which is how it works for the next 210 levels....
To protect and to rez, never to serve. Crafta of da weapa :) Master of Spellings and Typos

"we want to rule the world, to free our kind" (Shinken, Poete-healer)
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jamela
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by jamela »

gillest wrote:...And create confusion: when u explain to new players: at lvl x0 u get gentle +10 and aggro +15 at lvl X5...
I'm not surprised - your explanation has me confused too :p . Just tell people that they have to learn Aggressive extraction before they can learn the more delicate Gentle action, which takes a little more skill (5 more levels).

Prospection for Choice and up is not available on Silan, and it's obvious how much more complicated the training island would have to be if suddenly land-specific materials were available while every crafter can only learn their racial craft skills. I imagine Ryzom does not allow a mixed ecosystem at all.

The frustration with finding the exact spots for the first prospecting tasks could be alleviated by marking them with environmental clues, and making sure the nodes will always pop at those signs.
Last edited by jamela on Tue May 29, 2007 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gillest
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by gillest »

jamela wrote:I'm not surprised - your explanation has me confused too :p .
Let me make it clearer i was at work lol: knowing that gentle get u more xp than harmful due to no lose of quality:
Lvl 00 (x0): Gentle 10
Lvl 05 (x5): Harmful 20
Lvl 10 (x0): Gentle 20
Lvl 15 (x5): Harmful 30
.... So far so good...
Lvl 20 (x5) nothing.......... no gentle 30...
Lvl 25 (x0): Harmful 40 AND Gentle 30

Gentle 30 is 5 lvls compared to the rest until 250 (less xp from 20 to 25): what would u say if u had to wait till 245 to get gentle 250????

No reason to get 2 different quality at lvl 25 (except working as intended) and nothing at lvl 20 apart slowling new players xp....
AND confusing them in spending all their SP on other thing between lvl 10 and 25, then not having enough at lvl 25 to buy gentle 30, and then having to harvest 5 or 10 more lvls with gentle 20 or 10 lvl with harmful 30 which is a pain: utter nonsense imo....
To protect and to rez, never to serve. Crafta of da weapa :) Master of Spellings and Typos

"we want to rule the world, to free our kind" (Shinken, Poete-healer)
[thread=19248]Do not forget the old man words![/thread]

Too much PvP is bad for your sanity :)
dakhound wrote: holy crap I went to bed as jackoba and woke up sounding like jyudas :P
tassyt
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by tassyt »

I agree with Zengrath also, just having left Silan.

1. Polish the quests, and make sure that every single quest updates appropriately. The fact that some of the quests don't update gives an "unfinished" look to the game.

2. I found that levelling Fight and Magic were much, much easier than levelling Craft and Forage. The issue with Craft was purely due to lack of money and mats (more on this below). The issue with Forage is that it takes forever to dig at these low levels, and so is mind-numbing to do. The simplest fix I'd suggest is: allow learning faster extraction speed/rates on Silan. After finding out about these latter options, I kept looking for them at the trainer, and never could find them, even when my Foraging level increased to 39.

Other things that bug me:

3. Raw mats for crafting cost very much more than a crafted item of the same q. I know the merchants need to make their cut (of course), but I believe that the sell value of a crafted item should be increased to almost (maybe -10%) what its mats cost retail. Right now, as a lowbie crafter, I feel like I'm paying for the privilege of crafting, rather than making money by providing services as a crafter. I know of no real-world economy that ever successfully functioned using the current raw mats/finished item values of Ryzom (at least when buying raw mats wholesale in bulk).

4. No way to review complete mission text. We should always have an option to review the complete original mission-giver text. Double-clicking on the mission from the mission window, or selecting "Review mission" from a context menu from the same place, should bring up this text.

5. No jump/climb. Alright, I've stepped out of "small changes," but the lack of this manueverability is a huge peeve of mine.

6. "Universal" chat. I'd mentioned this on a separate forum item, and though some like Uni as it is, I really do believe Q&A should be separated into "Support" channel, and "Universal" left for those who want to discuss non-Q&A.

Commenting on player-made vs quest reward items on Silan: there are two categories of items not filled by quest rewards: Hvy Armor and Jewels. I didn't find out about the usefulness of Jewels until later, but a suit of basic q50 Hvy Armor I bought early on (crafted by Isi) really helped me along in Silan. In fact, I made it a quest for my Daelarin to craft one of equal quality (to sell to other players) before he left (he almost completed it before leaving, only becoming frustrated by one item which came out degrated three times in a row). Of course, I don't really want the quest reward items to be lessened (they're great teasers as to what crafters can create later), however, perhaps some NPC banter could talk about the usefulness of crafting Hvy Armor and Jewels for other players, in order to educate crafters on some items they could help out with on Silan.
klaelfr
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by klaelfr »

i dunno..
i used to think digging was borin and i left Silan with a lvl 9 in it.
a week after i hitted the ML. there was a Kitin invasion( the last one, just before the receivership).
so, being a noob, i found myself hanging vaguely in fh, bit bored, with all those shiny greenie bubbles around..
i took my pick..made a few holes, then before i noticed, i was digging in fount cos i needed higher q :)

in my experience, you shouldnt concentrate in diggin at low level, just do it when bored, or need to relax after 2-3 hrs hunt :D
levels will come easily, as you dont 'aim' to reach one, and soon enough you will have access to all the spiffy skils who make it engrossing :)
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blaah
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Re: Forums: What Bugs You The Most? (by Xavier Antoviaque)

Post by blaah »

6. "Universal" chat. I'd mentioned this on a separate forum item, and though some like Uni as it is, I really do believe Q&A should be separated into "Support" channel, and "Universal" left for those who want to discuss non-Q&A.
around, region and faction channel is for non-q&a/general stuff. really, one /uni is enough.
Last edited by blaah on Tue May 29, 2007 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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