The current system of picking fights in Ryzom seems fairly borked to me the current problems i have are:-
1) The con system - one minute you can fight dark green mob, its an easy fight and low exp - next fight you get your ass whooped easily by another dark green mob thats at the far end of the spectrum.
2) Travelling to fights and mob placement/aggro rules - mobs that are easy kills still aggro you meaning delays getting about or nuisance adds during fight, compounded with the tight grouping of vast herds of mobs makes soloing hard, there should be a threshold where mobs no longer attack you on sight. With the current herding of animals and the apparent variety of baf rules among similar versions of the same mob pulling singles to solo is at most times random.
3) Escape - unless you have the sprint stanza (cant remember exact name without going into the game) available to escape you have little way to get out if things go wrong if either adds appear or you bite off more than you can chew through the poor con system. There should be some sort of sprint available as the current combat boils down to kill or be killed with no escape tactics viable. Note: even if the sprint stanza is available its so short lived and mobs track you so well most times you still fail to get away.
Without a valid means of escape at least and a better method to con the mobs ingame rather than guessing a mob is between 1-20 and 21-50 or whatever the levels currently are, I cannot see Ryzom lasting far into the future due to the frustration of handling combat solo or in a duo/small group.
This type of seemingly random pulling and multitude of unforseen deaths can only work towards driving new players away.
Combat problems
Re: Combat problems
Yeah combat in this game is kinda frustrating
The other day for example i was killed by a scary javing because i didnt wear my pike once it attacked and every time i reequipped the pike the javing disarmed me again, and this is a mob i get like 100 xp from...
Theres also a frustrating amount of downtime, quite common that an entire group gets wiped once every 30 minutes because theres a sudden respawn or pop of a mob in the middle of our group while we are fighting one of its companions.
Also the amount of dmg you do and the rate at which you hit/miss is completely luck dependant. I remember when i was lvl 60 melee this dangerous clopper ran up to me and there was no route of escape at that moment so i fought it. To my surprise nearly every attack of mine did full damage and the clopper hit me like once, so i actually won the fight. 15 levels later, with 500 more hp and about 150 higher max dmg i tried taking out another and not only do i miss the only 3 hits i managed to perform, but i got killed in 2 hits...from the SAME mob
This luck based system needs to go !
The other day for example i was killed by a scary javing because i didnt wear my pike once it attacked and every time i reequipped the pike the javing disarmed me again, and this is a mob i get like 100 xp from...
Theres also a frustrating amount of downtime, quite common that an entire group gets wiped once every 30 minutes because theres a sudden respawn or pop of a mob in the middle of our group while we are fighting one of its companions.
Also the amount of dmg you do and the rate at which you hit/miss is completely luck dependant. I remember when i was lvl 60 melee this dangerous clopper ran up to me and there was no route of escape at that moment so i fought it. To my surprise nearly every attack of mine did full damage and the clopper hit me like once, so i actually won the fight. 15 levels later, with 500 more hp and about 150 higher max dmg i tried taking out another and not only do i miss the only 3 hits i managed to perform, but i got killed in 2 hits...from the SAME mob
This luck based system needs to go !
Re: Combat problems
The obvious answer to me, and I say this politely and not sarcastically, is that you are not meant to solo. I solo (I play aussie time zones and oftne I am the only person in the zone) and yes I suffer all the problems you do, including rapscals having an annoying fascination with me and wandering 50m off course to come have a look at me whilst I am killing one. Or a bodoc agroing because they are mindlessly stupid creatures who get all worked up by the mere proximity of combat....
But wait... this is really good AI at work! And after many annoying restarts it is a predictable AI, and with time I am learning the behavoirs of the various animals. SO now when hunting Gruntings I make sure to clear all the stupid bodocs, then I pull single Grunts a LONGGGGGG way back to my group.
And it works well, whenever I group we have far less problems then when I am trying to solo. The biggest problems come from people who do not understand the game yet... eg they pull 2 mobs and then start hitting only one of them. The healer starts healing and agros the second... the tank mindlessly keeps hitting his one mob while the healer either dies or stops healing... etc etc. This isnt the games problem, it is the players problem for being unskillful.
My pet hate at present is Javings, they are nearly impossible to melee due to the disarm trick, they are immune to stun and they do pretty good damage so casting against them is difficult. The answer to Javings is Fear, which is the next spell I am buying... and then there are going to be a LOT of dead javings around the place.
Again, to me this is very good game design. I am good at most mobs, but I currently have a weakness vs Javings... which I will fix. Play, learn, modify... great stuff.
If you are a solo player you are probably not going to stick with a single mmorpg until they bring one out that is designed for solo play... which is a bit silly for a Multi-player game. The whole idea is ... well multi-player...?
I can still easily solo in ryzom in select areas. I tried moving to the next level and lasted about 2 hits... yes as a solo player this is really annoying and frustrating, but after a while I settle down and simply accept the fact that some aspects of the game require a group, and that is a design decision and if you dont like it then sorry, but 'thats the facts, Jaks'
But wait... this is really good AI at work! And after many annoying restarts it is a predictable AI, and with time I am learning the behavoirs of the various animals. SO now when hunting Gruntings I make sure to clear all the stupid bodocs, then I pull single Grunts a LONGGGGGG way back to my group.
And it works well, whenever I group we have far less problems then when I am trying to solo. The biggest problems come from people who do not understand the game yet... eg they pull 2 mobs and then start hitting only one of them. The healer starts healing and agros the second... the tank mindlessly keeps hitting his one mob while the healer either dies or stops healing... etc etc. This isnt the games problem, it is the players problem for being unskillful.
My pet hate at present is Javings, they are nearly impossible to melee due to the disarm trick, they are immune to stun and they do pretty good damage so casting against them is difficult. The answer to Javings is Fear, which is the next spell I am buying... and then there are going to be a LOT of dead javings around the place.
Again, to me this is very good game design. I am good at most mobs, but I currently have a weakness vs Javings... which I will fix. Play, learn, modify... great stuff.
If you are a solo player you are probably not going to stick with a single mmorpg until they bring one out that is designed for solo play... which is a bit silly for a Multi-player game. The whole idea is ... well multi-player...?
I can still easily solo in ryzom in select areas. I tried moving to the next level and lasted about 2 hits... yes as a solo player this is really annoying and frustrating, but after a while I settle down and simply accept the fact that some aspects of the game require a group, and that is a design decision and if you dont like it then sorry, but 'thats the facts, Jaks'
Re: Combat problems
flynnkd wrote:The obvious answer to me, and I say this politely and not sarcastically, is that you are not meant to solo. I solo (I play aussie time zones and oftne I am the only person in the zone) and yes I suffer all the problems you do, including rapscals having an annoying fascination with me and wandering 50m off course to come have a look at me whilst I am killing one. Or a bodoc agroing because they are mindlessly stupid creatures who get all worked up by the mere proximity of combat....
But wait... this is really good AI at work! And after many annoying restarts it is a predictable AI, and with time I am learning the behavoirs of the various animals. SO now when hunting Gruntings I make sure to clear all the stupid bodocs, then I pull single Grunts a LONGGGGGG way back to my group.
And it works well, whenever I group we have far less problems then when I am trying to solo. The biggest problems come from people who do not understand the game yet... eg they pull 2 mobs and then start hitting only one of them. The healer starts healing and agros the second... the tank mindlessly keeps hitting his one mob while the healer either dies or stops healing... etc etc. This isnt the games problem, it is the players problem for being unskillful.
My pet hate at present is Javings, they are nearly impossible to melee due to the disarm trick, they are immune to stun and they do pretty good damage so casting against them is difficult. The answer to Javings is Fear, which is the next spell I am buying... and then there are going to be a LOT of dead javings around the place.
Again, to me this is very good game design. I am good at most mobs, but I currently have a weakness vs Javings... which I will fix. Play, learn, modify... great stuff.
If you are a solo player you are probably not going to stick with a single mmorpg until they bring one out that is designed for solo play... which is a bit silly for a Multi-player game. The whole idea is ... well multi-player...?
I can still easily solo in ryzom in select areas. I tried moving to the next level and lasted about 2 hits... yes as a solo player this is really annoying and frustrating, but after a while I settle down and simply accept the fact that some aspects of the game require a group, and that is a design decision and if you dont like it then sorry, but 'thats the facts, Jaks'
I have been playing mmorpgs since early ultima online and have played almost every mmorpg currently to date (played eq and uo both for 3 years, played CoH, SWG, AO, AC1, AC2, ATITD, AO, DAOC, Horizons, EVE etc - the timescales vary from 3 months to 1 or 2 years on each - sometimes playing multiple mmorpgs) so I do stick with a game until its content is exhausted once I like it.
As for soloing - its not always convenient to group, sometimes I do, sometimes I dont. Some players play multiplayer games as much for the atmosphere and the chat as for the hunting - I have known thousands of players in the past and how much they solo depends on their game preference so please dont preach to me that its a multiplayer game therefore I must group - I group when I feel like it and when there are people on I want to group with. However if I choose not to group then soloing although hard should be a possibility. Currently in Ryzom it is but there are far too many random factors in play meaning i can be killed numerous times an hour if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction - not due to my lack of skill.
I have no problems with combat being hard and not always escaping fights but this game has little option for you to actually attempt to flee, also the con system in place is completely useless - until you have been and tried each and every mob around you have no idea if you should pick a fight with a creature or not, even a fight with the same mob can yield massively varying results - granted you should not always win to a harder mob but even fighting easy mobs the number of misses you can acheive in one go is staggering and can culminate in some embarassing defeats - you dont have that much in the way of a skillset that if used properly can turn the tides of a battle.
The way combat currently plays out in ryzom is to use only a limited number of skills to fight a mob and the majority of the time its up to blind luck if you win in a hard fight - not skill. If you had ever played a game like uo or eq you would find that tactics and the use of many skills and spells plays a part in a fight - to me it does not seem to be the case in ryzom. And please dont say that the use of tactics and being able to flee makes a fight impossible to lose, bad judgement and bad pulls mixed with the urge to do or die in a fight kills enough mmorpg players as it is - its only natural for players to push themselves
The sheer randomness and unskilled ways of Ryzoms combat could well spell death for the game - there is no loot as such so the best part of combat should be the use of tactics - this is not the case in this game so it becomes more tedious to do, hopefully the devs will fix this
.Re: Combat problems
Just to add an example of the games randomness in combat and mob handling getting me killed - I have recently obtained some debt through 3 goari spawning on me during a fight. In most other mmorpgs this would cause me to flee for my life and sometimes i would escape. Please not however that in the case of Ryzom i am aggroed almost immediately and have zero chance of escape - no matter what i did there was ZERO chance of escaping the goaris.
In eq i could have gated out or cast a run speed spell and escaped with some classes, in daoc, hz and several other games i could have sprinted away, in eve i could have warped out my ship if the enemy didnt have warp scramblers, in uo i could have run off unless it was a daemon or dragon who froze me to the spot - the same common option is available in every other mmorpg currently available - it doesnt always work but at least there is in most cases a VIABLE option to flee and tbh it is a pretty basic option covered in EVERY other game.
Also just because these games have that option doesnt mean I always survive - sometimes i get greedy and try to finish the mob i was working on before running - getting knobbled in the process and in other cases the mobs use a spell or effect on me to make fleeing impossible. In Ryzom howver it is the case almost all of the time that I will die if it is a pack of herd animals or if it is the biggest mob around.
The common factor in all these games is though that if i make a tactical decision to run early then 9 times out of 10 I will live to fight another day - this also brings into play the option to push myself and try much harder things rather than farming low mobs for low exp as escape IS an option (though it doesnt always work).
Sorry about the long rants and examples I just wanted to make it clear how this sort of option is normally handled - and usually works well
In eq i could have gated out or cast a run speed spell and escaped with some classes, in daoc, hz and several other games i could have sprinted away, in eve i could have warped out my ship if the enemy didnt have warp scramblers, in uo i could have run off unless it was a daemon or dragon who froze me to the spot - the same common option is available in every other mmorpg currently available - it doesnt always work but at least there is in most cases a VIABLE option to flee and tbh it is a pretty basic option covered in EVERY other game.
Also just because these games have that option doesnt mean I always survive - sometimes i get greedy and try to finish the mob i was working on before running - getting knobbled in the process and in other cases the mobs use a spell or effect on me to make fleeing impossible. In Ryzom howver it is the case almost all of the time that I will die if it is a pack of herd animals or if it is the biggest mob around.
The common factor in all these games is though that if i make a tactical decision to run early then 9 times out of 10 I will live to fight another day - this also brings into play the option to push myself and try much harder things rather than farming low mobs for low exp as escape IS an option (though it doesnt always work).
Sorry about the long rants and examples I just wanted to make it clear how this sort of option is normally handled - and usually works well
Re: Combat problems
tonycow wrote:The common factor in all these games is though that if i make a tactical decision to run early then 9 times out of 10 I will live to fight another day - this also brings into play the option to push myself and try much harder things rather than farming low mobs for low exp as escape IS an option (though it doesnt always work).
I think the common theme here is that running is impossible, and that's just not right. A 17th level vigorous ragus can chase you 3 miles from level 50 to level 200 zones, and that doesn't make any common sense either.
Re: Combat problems
I didnt 'preach' to you that you had to group, I said the game is designed for grouping, which is a different thing.
You will note that I said I solo also, because often I have no choice.
SO I am not saying you are wrong, I was merely trying to point out the facts of life that you have to live with.
I too have played many mmorpgs, EQ for 5 years for one, this doesnt make my opinion any better or less than yours.
I agree that not being able to run is a pain, and the speedup skill at low levels is worthless as most agro mobs will out run you easily. I havent taken it so far, if anyone has taken it to a reasonable level I would love to hear how it works?
However, death in Ryzom, isnt a great pain unless distance has become a factor. DPs are trivial and quickly got rid of. Travel however is the killer. Yet more reasons to have a healer with you. Teleports help a little.
So I am not disagreeing with you, and I was trying to sound positive and nice, but obviously some aspects of the game annoy you more than me.
It would be amusing to go pick up a low level gingo and drag it around with you all over the place, your regen out doing its damage.... this is my pet Fido, he is very affectionate... then some low level healer tries to heal you...
You will note that I said I solo also, because often I have no choice.
SO I am not saying you are wrong, I was merely trying to point out the facts of life that you have to live with.
I too have played many mmorpgs, EQ for 5 years for one, this doesnt make my opinion any better or less than yours.
I agree that not being able to run is a pain, and the speedup skill at low levels is worthless as most agro mobs will out run you easily. I havent taken it so far, if anyone has taken it to a reasonable level I would love to hear how it works?
However, death in Ryzom, isnt a great pain unless distance has become a factor. DPs are trivial and quickly got rid of. Travel however is the killer. Yet more reasons to have a healer with you. Teleports help a little.
So I am not disagreeing with you, and I was trying to sound positive and nice, but obviously some aspects of the game annoy you more than me.
It would be amusing to go pick up a low level gingo and drag it around with you all over the place, your regen out doing its damage.... this is my pet Fido, he is very affectionate... then some low level healer tries to heal you...
Re: Combat problems
Gotta agree with Flynnkd, the AI is pretty good, and it pays to learn how different creatures behave and use that knowledge to your advantage.
My answer to Javings was levelling Close Combat -if they keep disarming you, get better at fighting without weapons and make some melee actions to suit.
I do think there is a problem with escaping fights - I tried using Speed-up 2 to get away from a couple of Dangerous Gingos Id stupidly walked into while chatting, and was glad to see the message come up that they had both "left combat". I carried on running back towards Avalae and they caught up with me on the border of Majestic Gardens a whole zone away after passing dozens of bodocs and raspals. Guess they thought I was carrying some Choice loot, surely wasnt any XP in me for 'em
I have used Teleport tickets to escape a sticky situation a couple of times. Rather more expensive than EQs Gate, but you can use it even when you're really busy.
My answer to Javings was levelling Close Combat -if they keep disarming you, get better at fighting without weapons and make some melee actions to suit.
I do think there is a problem with escaping fights - I tried using Speed-up 2 to get away from a couple of Dangerous Gingos Id stupidly walked into while chatting, and was glad to see the message come up that they had both "left combat". I carried on running back towards Avalae and they caught up with me on the border of Majestic Gardens a whole zone away after passing dozens of bodocs and raspals. Guess they thought I was carrying some Choice loot, surely wasnt any XP in me for 'em
I have used Teleport tickets to escape a sticky situation a couple of times. Rather more expensive than EQs Gate, but you can use it even when you're really busy.
Re: Combat problems
hate to admit it but Sar is right, i have never encountered AI this clever before, in any mmo ive played, i die alot but im stilla baby, but im learning quickly, and effectively ways of combatting creatures, im melee based mainly, so im always in the thick of it, but ive found different attacks other than inc damage work, and with that fact i need to buy a maul, gingos are fairly resistant to slashing :S
Kiira - Allegiance of Power - Matis
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Kiiras Market Forum
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Former Hz Icer - Demelza Flameclaw
Kiiras Market Forum
http://s8.invisionfree.com/Kiiras_Lounge
Re: Combat problems
Being a Tryker , escaping is most time easier for me due to the ability to reach water fast.
But lately while exploring other lands i just learned which mobs to avoid and which I can attack safely.Most times the hard way. That is really the way it should be. Why they ever felt the need to add the consider system I have no clue. It really serves no purpose.
And its pretty obvious that different mobs require different aproaches in fight style.
With the broken Affliction spells grouping is too easy imho. You can take mobs WAY beyond your combined skill levels. Broken because you can affect a lvl 250 mob with a lvl 1 spell despite it stating in the description that it will stop working beyond lvl 15? mobs.
Will be interesting to see if they fix that with patch 1. Then we will see different hunting schemes in groups as well.
Fighting is heavily based on equipment. If you don't have good equipment you are likely to take a lot longer to kill or getting killed much faster. As a crafter that is something i really apreciate.
Just a few comments to this. Even Power Up 3 doesn't give you enough distance for you to really loose your opponent. If you haven't reached a save place (guards/water/portal) a few seconds after it is up you are dead meat anyhow. I mainly use it when i know it will last me to get into a lake or through a portal. Or if i want to cover some distance fast (e.g. get to a mate that died some distance away and rez him)
DP at higher lvls ARE a pain. (being 147 in forage I get 140k DP/death) a friend of mine get ~400k DP / death. That is a lot of time without exp.
As for travel just find those nice hunting spots around the porters / spawn points and you don't have to worry about long travel times.
But lately while exploring other lands i just learned which mobs to avoid and which I can attack safely.Most times the hard way. That is really the way it should be. Why they ever felt the need to add the consider system I have no clue. It really serves no purpose.
And its pretty obvious that different mobs require different aproaches in fight style.
With the broken Affliction spells grouping is too easy imho. You can take mobs WAY beyond your combined skill levels. Broken because you can affect a lvl 250 mob with a lvl 1 spell despite it stating in the description that it will stop working beyond lvl 15? mobs.
Will be interesting to see if they fix that with patch 1. Then we will see different hunting schemes in groups as well.
Fighting is heavily based on equipment. If you don't have good equipment you are likely to take a lot longer to kill or getting killed much faster. As a crafter that is something i really apreciate.
flynnkd wrote:I agree that not being able to run is a pain, and the speedup skill at low levels is worthless as most agro mobs will out run you easily. I havent taken it so far, if anyone has taken it to a reasonable level I would love to hear how it works?
However, death in Ryzom, isnt a great pain unless distance has become a factor. DPs are trivial and quickly got rid of. Travel however is the killer. Yet more reasons to have a healer with you.
Just a few comments to this. Even Power Up 3 doesn't give you enough distance for you to really loose your opponent. If you haven't reached a save place (guards/water/portal) a few seconds after it is up you are dead meat anyhow. I mainly use it when i know it will last me to get into a lake or through a portal. Or if i want to cover some distance fast (e.g. get to a mate that died some distance away and rez him)
DP at higher lvls ARE a pain. (being 147 in forage I get 140k DP/death) a friend of mine get ~400k DP / death. That is a lot of time without exp.
As for travel just find those nice hunting spots around the porters / spawn points and you don't have to worry about long travel times.
Sky
Tryker Crafter
Q200 Jewels, Q180 armor, Q200 amps crafter and user.
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Tryker Crafter
Q200 Jewels, Q180 armor, Q200 amps crafter and user.
Proud member of [url=evolve.guildportal.com]Evolution[/url]