Long term goals/rewards!

[sidusar]

It would be nice if there was more that could be done with stanzas. The game is designed to have a very open system where any action can be created, but due to the limitations of few credits and a small choice of stanzas there is actually very little variety in the actions people use.

QFE also! We have this potentially very versatible system that allows us to completely customize our characters actions and tailor them to any situation, but because of the small amount of available building blocks it still feels very limited

As for giving us a reason to master more than one melee tree, I'd prefer more diversity between the different melee skills over more raw power for having multiple trees mastered. The idea of the Ryzom skill system was always that mastering a second skill would make you more versatible, but not more powerful.

This currently works reasonably well in the magic skills because each tree earns you unique spells (at least until lvl 240) and because with the right amplifiers it's quite doable to be using elemental, healing and affliction spells all at once. In the fighting skills though, there's very little difference between using a mace, a sword or an axe. And even if there was, you can only use one weapon at a time and can't quickly change weapons in the middle of a battle.

For there to be a reason to master more than one melee, every weapon needs to have it's own unique stanzas that can only be used with that weapon. There's plenty of good suggestions for skills in that and many other old threads. I think it would be best if those skills don't become available until the higher levels, so as to not make it even harder for the new players to decide what to spent their skill points on. Plus we've always wanted some new skills to become available at 150 and 200.

We also need to be able to change weapons more quickly, in my opinion. Changing your weapon in the middle of a battle currently leaves you a sitting izam for several seconds (can't perform any actions, dodge/parry reduced to 0). With the fast-paced combat in Ryzom, that's often fatal. There's no use in having several weapons mastered if you can only use one at a time.

Still, I expect new stanzas would probably take a long time to implement, so if a 50 stamina bonus for every additional mastered melee skill keeps the high-end players happy in the meantime, I can't see it create any huge unbalances.

Something to keep in mind: Atysian weapons are not made of metal.

That doesn't mean they can't still be heavy! But the main objection I'd have against dual-wielding 2-handed weapons is that they wouldn't be 2-handed weapons anymore

[jared96]

Master all melee, to be able to duel weild 2 2handed weapons. Imagine swinging 2 axes at the same time!

Seems to be that the special axe pattern for the 1h axe that you get for doing the fyros rite outta have soemthin special about it....like dual wield capability.

[karmelit]

I know my thought patterns often seem weird *chuckles*

But I thought the surplus SP at some time would be useful when we at last should discover a way to get to the other planets in this universe (as promised way, way back). Then I could see us spending those redundant SP on a new skill branch previously unknown to us

Then again, that could have been just me catching a glance of an alternate universe that we never reached hehe

[jared96]

Craft lol, where to start
80% sucess rate at lvl 250 crafting a lvl 250 item sounds okay, IF it was 10% chance of failure, 10% change of degrade, the amount of degrades you get at 80% sucess rate is a pain in the ass. Lvl 250 give a 90% chance of sucess or decrease the amount of degrades and increase the failures.

Tho advised otherwise I am not seeing any difference between my 250 skills and 249.5 skills with regard to number of dgrades. AT this point I no longer intentionally get DP before crafting HA. I do see a substantial difference in failure rate when using different mat qualities tho. If I make a choice set, almost never get a degrade....more degardes withe xe and even more it seems with sups and boss mats.

There should be some kind of boost / reward methinks foir bringing up related skill trees. If max success is 80% after mastering helmets, maybe add 3% to the max obtainable for each additional skill tree which would set youb at 95% after mastering all 6 HA trees. If 95% is too much then maybe 2% for each additional master would get you to 90%. At elast have soem reason for pursuing those other 5 trees.

Just my view, i'd like to see the rubbarn tool chance of boosting reduced too, but thats cos i think finding supremes isnt that hard if you try.

I think that should depend on what you makin.....seems OK for 1 item to a set things like amps or weps....but a boosted set of HA right now costs:

216 / (80% success rate with 5% boost chance ) = 5,400 mats ... and with that you know ya gonna ahve 3 boots boosted and no vest boosted.

Maybe not too bad if you don't have a job, kids or a need to sleep but quite a chore for an old fart like me with a business to run, a 200 year old house to maintain, and 3 kids to taxi around to sports, school, piloting / sports / music lessons and the like.

Equalizing ya shot right now at getting "what ya need boosted", I'd guess 5% on "one item needed" items would be equivalent to 30% on HA & Jools / 25% on LA / MA but things don't need to be equalized. Maybe something mid - ground like 12% on HA / Jools, 10 % on LA / MA and 2% on single item things like weps would work for ya. Though I gotta think the idea of making 50 items to get one boosted amp would make many peeps cringe.

Sort out the armilo tool lol, focus boosted HA is never useful.

Agreed.... boost should be a "checkbox" thing with maybe selecting the checkbox resulting in reduced success rate....but not by a factor of 4 which would be no difference.

[jared96]

For there to be a reason to master more than one melee, every weapon needs to have it's own unique stanzas that can only be used with that weapon.

There is to some extent in that bleed can be used on slashing weps and ignore armor on pointie things, etc. But it would be interesting to consider various enchants based upon weapon type as is currently planned for ammo. I'm thinking a "primary enchant" where each weapon has a specific chance at one type magically enhanced damage (applied like or in lieu of critical hit) and a "secondary enchant" which is the "enchant on demand" that we have now.

We also need to be able to change weapons more quickly, in my opinion. Changing your weapon in the middle of a battle currently leaves you a sitting izam for several seconds (can't perform any actions, dodge/parry reduced to 0). With the fast-paced combat in Ryzom, that's often fatal. There's no use in having several weapons mastered if you can only use one at a time.

I don't have a problem with the currents et-up but a slightly shorter time deson't seem to unrealistic. I'd would like "secondary weapon" slots and "secondary armor" slots tho so that I could change from focus gear to hp gear in less than 32 clicks. I don't mind the time delay in changing 10 jools, 5 pieces or armor and 1 hand equipped item....I mind the clicking. Just give me one or 2 clicks and make me wait the equivalent time it takes for the 32 clicks and save me the RSI issues.

Still, I expect new stanzas would probably take a long time to implement, so if a 50 stamina bonus for every additional mastered melee skill keeps the high-end players happy in the meantime, I can't see it create any huge unbalances.

Training another weapon does increase muscle mass and hand eye coordination so there should be soem benefit to mastering additional weps. A stamina / HP boost makes perfect sense as does increased hit % and damage .... after all, after someone trains in the heavier mace, wouldn't he be able to swing that axe a bit harder ?

That doesn't mean they can't still be heavy! But the main objection I'd have against dual-wielding 2-handed weapons is that they wouldn't be 2-handed weapons anymore

Agreed.....I wouldn't want routine 1 handed weps or 2 handed weps to be dual wield but including special wep plans which were only made available at higher levels and / or after doing certain rites would make things interesting.

My time in Ryzom has been marked by alternating periods of activity and inactivity dues mainly to PMS (Post Master Syndrome). OKay, I have mastered [insert any skill here].....now what ? Need some type of reward / bonus to get motivated and its perfectly logical that training in related skill trees (whether it be melee or crafting) should improve performance in the primary parent skill. Not that 1h training would improve 2h skill or training HA should improve jool crafting skills but seems to me training 4 other LA skill trees after first doing LA vests (or mace skill) would make my vest skill (Or axe skill) just a tiny bit better. As long as it's not overpowering or darstic it would be a nice, unobtrusive addition.

[sidusar]

There is to some extent in that bleed can be used on slashing weps and ignore armor on pointie things, etc. But it would be interesting to consider various enchants based upon weapon type as is currently planned for ammo.

You just had to bring it up
- Bleed about doubles your damage and is thus for practical purposes almost identical to increased damage. It's only usefull if you can use it in combination with increased damage for a cumulative effect. In the fast majority of fights you have to use accurate attack, and thus you have to choose between increased damage or bleed, as you don't have enough credit to use both. You might as well just use increase damage then.
- Slow attack slows your opponent's attack speed by 10%, and again you have to use it instead of increased damage. So you're decreasing your own damage output by 50% to decrease your opponents damage output by 10%. Personally I feel like their attacks are slowed by 10% because they spent that time laughing at me
- Ignore armor is only usefull against opponents that have more than 50% armor protection. If they have less than that, then again it's better to use increased damage. The only opponents who have more than 50% armor are players in full heavy armor and... 4 out of the 60 kinds of creatures

So yes, there is to some extent, but those skills are currently only useful in a few very specific situations. I agree the kind of diversity they have planned for ammo is what I would like to see for melee weapons as well.

I'd would like "secondary weapon" slots and "secondary armor" slots tho so that I could change from focus gear to hp gear in less than 32 clicks.

Yep, that would also be quite nice

.... after all, after someone trains in the heavier mace, wouldn't he be able to swing that axe a bit harder ?

Nope, I disagree. Master Axe means Master Axe. You've mastered everything there is to learn about using an axe. If any amount of mace training would help you swing that axe even harder, it would've been included in what you had to learn to master that axe.

The reason I agree with the stamina/HP boost idea is purely from a game-mechanic viewpoint, as a quick-fix to give players some reward for mastering additional melee skills, while we wait for Gameforge to implement some meaningfull differences between the melee weapons.

[setstyle]

Oh... digging... I knew this thread existed somewhere! Some of these could perhaps be applied to multiple masters...

http://forums.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24991

- Bleed about doubles your damage and is thus for practical purposes almost identical to increased damage. It's only usefull if you can use it in combination with increased damage for a cumulative effect. In the fast majority of fights you have to use accurate attack, and thus you have to choose between increased damage or bleed, as you don't have enough credit to use both. You might as well just use increase damage then.

For quick fights increase damage seems the better way to go, but for longer ones I use mostly bleed with whatever increase damage I can afford and the mobs go down lot easier. Bleed inflicts damage no matter what and occurs as rapidly as actual attacks (two-handed at least) so always resulted in less credit usage for me. It really depends on what you're fighting... but stepping back and watching something bleed to death is so (cruelly) fun . With regards to slow attack and ignore armor, I agree.

[jennaelf]

I know my thought patterns often seem weird *chuckles*

But I thought the surplus SP at some time would be useful when we at last should discover a way to get to the other planets in this universe (as promised way, way back). Then I could see us spending those redundant SP on a new skill branch previously unknown to us

I like your thought patterns.
Restoration Specialist. NPC with a training window, Crafting SP listed, no stanzas currently. Anyone else wonder? (Heck, does anyone else KNOW?)

[sidusar]

It really depends on what you're fighting... but stepping back and watching something bleed to death is so (cruelly) fun .

I did oversimplify things a bit. Bleed actually does about 20% more damage than increased damage. But it only works if you get a full hit, while increased damage also works if you get a partial hit. So overall I think it's about equally effective. Bleed mostly works well against opponents that are lower level than you, where you always get full hits.

I agree it has a fun factor to it though. I remember killing npc healers at on OP battle that way. Slash them twice, then leave them to bleed to death while you move on to the next one. Feels delightfully evil

Restoration Specialist. NPC with a training window, Crafting SP listed, no stanzas currently. Anyone else wonder? (Heck, does anyone else KNOW?)

I understand the NPC bosses (Aen/Pei/Sirgio/Lixie) drop parts of crafting plans. And once you have the 4 parts of a plan, you can take them to the Restoration Specialist to learn the plan.

[acridiel]

Dunno if it was allready brought up here and dunno if it realy fits the topic, (sorry for not reading all pages) but I´d like to see the "living", "electric","burning", "waving" wapons realy do damage after the initial hit (dot), that fits their speciality.

That would make them so much more, than just "SFX-Wapons".

CU
Acridiel